Sorting out the Delta Wolf HP 0.22

[Macros]

LW sent JSAR a batch of out of spec barrels when the Raptor was in the process of being created. It took them a while to figure that out and some guns (like mine) were sent out with one of these barrels. They made good for it and only a lot of lost time was factored in.

I took the chance of buying a 177 Wolverine "R" (regulated) when they first came out and were untested like your Delta Wolf. Untested in field and practical use is what I mean. I got lucky and even though my gun may have been the first or one of the first sent out once they hit our shores, it turned out to be a jewel. It too, like the Delta Wolf was a new design, but it was based on a time proven gun, the standard, unregulated Wolverine. The Delta is an entirely new concept with what appears to be growing pains. I only hope the kids at Daystate see your post and learn from it.

I hope the barrels are out of spec.

Even though the barrels we got seem capable of fair accuracy under very specific, stringent conditions (and appear to have been the lesser part of the puzzle vs the shroud and chrony), simply by their very fussy nature they are unsuited to a gun of this nature. It really is no use having all the tunability in the world when you're essentially stuck with one pellet at one power level.

The wolverine R is a great gun and you're right, unlike the delta wolf it was the next step in a long line of guns of fantastic pedigree. 

 

[Stone02]

https://youtu.be/61V_7SwLeKI





Another dud DW.

Yeah I spoke with him a bit in the comments round the time I was still thinking all this out and just getting started with the above. 

Some of his issues, such as the loose/jiggly cocking lever were present on mine but was a simple matter of slightly snuggling up the screws that attach the rail to rest of the frame. It's now rock solid and hasn't changed. I don't know about that whole business where he talks about his probe having slight forward/back play - mine has no such thing.

The safety doesn't have an unacceptable amount of play at all. It's simply the ball detent moving in and out as you shift positions and is completely fine and as you'd expect.

The huma reg on his seems to be a real dud if what he says is true. Mine has been rock solid with zero creep and less than 3bar variance from a full fill to near set pressure. Granted I may be lucky in this regard as I don't get the same temperature related reg pressure change some guys on this forum have mentioned either.

The accuracy part - from what I can see and as he describes it he's having the exact same issues I did, presumably for the same reasons.

Congratulations in finding the root cause of the problem and the innovative manner in which you have circumvented problems which should not have been present in a new gun regardless of cost.

Problems which are still unacknowledged by Daystate.

 

[mrdirect]

My cocking handle also has a ton of play in it. My gun is now back to daystate, because the chrono stopped working. I hope they notice the play as well and fix it.

 

[Stone02]

My cocking handle also has a ton of play in it. My gun is now back to daystate, because the chrono stopped working. I hope they notice the play as well and fix it.

Did yours have an accuracy problem or just the chrono ?

 

[Macros]

My cocking handle also has a ton of play in it. My gun is now back to daystate, because the chrono stopped working. I hope they notice the play as well and fix it.

Did yours have an accuracy problem or just the chrono ?

If they don't fix the play, just try tightening down those screws I mentioned, in particular the one directly at the cocking levers articulation point is the one that makes the difference. Too tight and the cocking lever starts to bind a bit though, so just go by feel.

 

[Cutler]

Greg it is unfortunate that you had to sort out these teething problems, but as you mentioned the DW represents a significant leap in technology, and there was bound to be initial problems as with all new or first generation guns, even FX with their evergreen Impact, now in the 3rd generation has problems and guys have to spend to get guys like Hein Fromann make changes to get it to perform as it should. I just hope that Daystate makes the changes necessary to correct the issues in future Delta Wolfs. I think Daystate was under huge pressure to get the gun to market and maybe not sufficient testing happened.

 

[Este]

asi es como vino el mio

goteando por todas partes

volvió a facto

así es como vino el mío

goteando por todas partes

regresó a la fábrica

 

[mtnGhost]

The problem with the factory barrels seems to be the 10 degree chamber throat. This shouldn't be this steep (1.5-3 degrees max).

 

[Macros]

The problem with the factory barrels seems to be the 10 degree chamber throat. This shouldn't be this steep (1.5-3 degrees max).

Interesting thought - It is pretty abrupt.

That friend of mine who did my machining is experimenting with trying to get his factory barrel shooting better. He has modified his chrony and built a very much smaller MacGyvered air stripper into it in order to squeeze a solution into the space available in the shroud (I've since sent him a CF tube I had that's suitable to make a replacement or two so he can make and install a proper one), as well as made an aluminium barrel band to bypass the issue of the now even weaker chrony as a shroud + moderator support, which he says has helped a lot overall but it still remains an extremely fussy barrel. 

I'll ask him to try this out and hopefully it's another step in the right direction.

 

[mtnGhost]

The problem with the factory barrels seems to be the 10 degree chamber throat. This shouldn't be this steep (1.5-3 degrees max).

Interesting thought - It is pretty abrupt.

That friend of mine who did my machining is experimenting with trying to get his factory barrel shooting better. He has modified his chrony and built a very much smaller MacGyvered air stripper into it in order to squeeze a solution into the space available in the shroud (I've since sent him a CF tube I had that's suitable to make a replacement or two so he can make and install a proper one), as well as made an aluminium barrel band to bypass the issue of the now even weaker chrony as a shroud + moderator support, which he says has helped a lot overall but it still remains an extremely fussy barrel. 

I'll ask him to try this out and hopefully it's another step in the right direction.

Yeah, I really believe that the barrel attachment / support needs to be improved to make it significantly more stable. Akin to "bedding" in the powder burner world. That's been the primary reason why I have gravitated towards the Taipans, where the 15mm barrel OD seems to become "one" with the rest of the rifle.

That copper tubing sleeve idea is intriguing and clever. What did you wind up having to so for the barrel set screw that pins down the barrel on the side?

 

[Emu]

Once you have rifles that work properly, it is a bet to buy a new one that can have problems.

Each dollar invested in a new rifle just to hope it will be better, could be an error.

My life as buyer of air rifles is ending. I do not think I will ever buy an electronic rifle. Nothing yet to justify the lot of money you pay in regard of what you get in exchange.

 

[Macros]

The problem with the factory barrels seems to be the 10 degree chamber throat. This shouldn't be this steep (1.5-3 degrees max).

Interesting thought - It is pretty abrupt.

That friend of mine who did my machining is experimenting with trying to get his factory barrel shooting better. He has modified his chrony and built a very much smaller MacGyvered air stripper into it in order to squeeze a solution into the space available in the shroud (I've since sent him a CF tube I had that's suitable to make a replacement or two so he can make and install a proper one), as well as made an aluminium barrel band to bypass the issue of the now even weaker chrony as a shroud + moderator support, which he says has helped a lot overall but it still remains an extremely fussy barrel. 

I'll ask him to try this out and hopefully it's another step in the right direction.

Yeah, I really believe that the barrel attachment / support needs to be improved to make it significantly more stable. Akin to "bedding" in the powder burner world. That's been the primary reason why I have gravitated towards the Taipans, where the 15mm barrel OD seems to become "one" with the rest of the rifle.

That copper tubing sleeve idea is intriguing and clever. What did you wind up having to so for the barrel set screw that pins down the barrel on the side?

I have one brass transfer port that we made a very shallow dimple in to allow the grub screw to align everything consistently. The other one with the dual bridged port I've just left for the time being, since it's quite hard to do without breaking though to the threads on these, basically aligning it by eye and tightening down the grub screw. It bites into the brass a bit but hold fast with no issue. The screw is short enough that it doesn't protrude from the frame at all.

I think once I've finished completely with the gun I'll probably get a port made without the oring grooves as well as with the alignment dimple. 

As for the overall barrel attachment strength, it could definitely be more solid. I haven't come across any issues related to shifts though, and I've purposefully bumped the barrel to test it.

 

[Macros]

Once you have rifles that work properly, it is a bet to buy a new one that can have problems.

Each dollar invested in a new rifle just to hope it will be better, could be an error.

My life as buyer of air rifles is ending. I do not think I will ever buy an electronic rifle. Nothing yet to justify the lot of money you pay in regard of what you get in exchange.

You're right - every gun is a gamble. Virtually all of the best shooting guns I've got have needed not insignificant amounts of work to get them there. They have come from many different manufacturers too. I've made peace with that and weirdly enough have come to enjoy parts of it.

 

[deadeyedick63]

Hi, enjoying this thread and the time that’s gone into trying to sort the grouping out, I’ve looked at my chrono this afternoon which Is attached to a .22 hp bought around July/August time. I see the mounting on the barrel is a lot longer than the photos here look like, it does lock well and has no play but it looks like the barrel finishes exactly in line with the 4 small air exit holes so very very little air stripping in effect. I’m wondering if I can source a new longer carbon shroud I can manufacture an adaptor with better air stripping or is it more cost effective to start with a fx barrel?

 

[deadeyedick63]

 

[Macros]

My friend tried exactly that with the original barrel and it made a significant difference with its preferred pellet. Issue is it remained an exceedingly fussy barrel, unsuited to such a tuneable gun. In the end he went the same route as me and changed to the fx barrel, with an even more impressive air stripper and shroud support than the initial one we made. It shoots anything he feeds it like a laser.

Interesting that your chrony mount is different, at least visually. I agree that functionally it still looks as useless with regards to air stripping as mine. It's still plastic too and a grossly suboptimal support for the shroud compared to something more solid/rigid like aluminium/metal. 

Whichever route you take, you'll have to do some machining but I'd honestly advise just going the fx barrel route. It'll probably save you a lot of frustration.

 

[deadeyedick63]

Hi Macros, that air stripper looks exactly like the one on my Walter LG 400 I see some time on my lathe in the near future. I think you’re right a new FX barrel is on the cards if only to shorten the frustration trying to find exactly which lead the Daystate barrel will shoot. With our gun laws here it’s a bit more difficult to get one for a HP as it’s classed as a firearm and needs to be certified. Which barrel combo do you think will be optimum as I can probably go out to the 700mm if I make a new shroud. Also in you’re experience which liner is the most suitable for up to 50 meter pellets and slugs at longer ranges?

 

[Macros]

I'd probably just go with the standard superior liner. They seem to shoot the majority of pellets as well as most reasonably weighted slugs very well. If you really want to launch big lead then go for the heavy, but I haven't shot any pellets out of my heavy liners so I can't really speak for how well they do with them in comparison.

Just a heads up to check the length of the chrony wire before going for the 700mm- it may need new wiring depending on how generous whoever put it together was with the wire length. That glue they use on the chrony is a bit of a pain to get off - I had to do that to fix a bad connection to the board. The 500mm and 600mm barrels should be fine straight off. 

 

[Macros]

One last thing. Don't bother with one of those bridged dual transfer ports on the FX barrel unless you plan to make a pin probe for the gun. When using one with the standard delta wolf probe you lose quite a bit of power vs the normal port since they tend to obstruct one another. The nice thing is the standard sized FX port is just about the exact size as the delta wolf port, or at least it was on the 0.22 barrel I got. One downside though is that smaller slugs can get a bit jammed in the standard port, so if you want to shoot those a pin probe would be best.

 

[deadeyedick63]

Cheers Macros,

I’ve ordered the 600 stx superior which will be here in 3/4 weeks so plenty of time to get the new carbon tube and Ali material in stock.

The thread on the end of the fx barrel nut is 1/2 unf and M14*1mm going into the chrono’ so I’ll check I’ve got the tooling available. Looks like an anxious few weeks waiting for the barrel. Thanks a lot I’ll post up the results once we’re done.