SPA P35 clipping baffles and moderator

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MrWhite

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Sep 3, 2022
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Burkina Faso
I got this P35 in a .22, and I’m having trouble with it. The gun was bought for pest control at 20 to 40 yards. I guess something’s up with the barrel as I’ve read up on SPA’s barrel lottery a bit, but I’d love a diagnosis from someone knowledgeable as this is my first PCP (after lots of break barrels).

After a few 100 pellets, some baffles in the shroud already got clipped and deformed. Removed the clipped baffles and replaced ‘m with a tube (to keep the rest of the baffles in place). Then a few 100 pellets later, the inside of my Huma moderator got clipped and when opening it up, lead debris is found inside. When I shoot from about 2 yards inside the house through an opened window, I noticed tiny lead debris up to 2 feet next to the window embedded in the white wall. For some reason this gun spews lead debris, which I suspect of doing the damage, but something's off.

To be sure it shoots at least somewhat straight, I shot it from a fixed mount to be sure the gun didn’t move, trying several pellets at 20 yards distance, each a full cartridge of 9 pellets (minimum wind interference):

JSB express 14.35 gr = 0.7 inch group

JSB RS 13.43 gr = 0.75 inch group

JSB Hades 15.89 gr = 1 inch group

JSB Heavy 18.13 gr = 1.6 inch group

JSB Pb free 11.75 gr = 1.85 inch group

JSB Monster 25.39 = 4.8 inch group

Testing at 40 yards still needs to be done. The main problem however is that I can't use baffles or moderator on this gun as they get clipped somehow, while I need to keep nois down in the neighbourhood. If it wasn't for that, I would be shooting JSB Express or RS (although it isn't clear what groups are possible at 40 yards).
 
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Well if you’re aware of the barrel lottery then I hope you were prepared to fix the other problems that exist with Snowpeak guns. Their guns were clipping baffles 5 years ago so you shouldn’t be surprised. The first thing I encountered with these guns is the bore is not centered in many of their barrels. The first time I chucked one up in a lathe to crown it, I experienced that WTF moment. You can’t fix that unless you machine an offset airstripper to center the shroud. The best you can hope for is you got one of their patented jacked up crowns. You can fix that by crowning the barrel properly. For now you can take it apart and roll the barrel and the shroud to make sure they are true. I hope it’s the crown but either way this is when the money saved buying a cheap gun gets spent to fix it. Even if you’re a machinist.
 
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I have 3 P35 and all will shoot a 1/4 group or smaller at 20 yards. Something is definitely up.

Is the bright aluminum piece screwed onto the end of the barrel inside of the shroud (the shroud screws off at the rear)? If so, is the O-ring in place on the bright aluminum piece?

Have you tried centering the baffles with a soda straw as you assemble the shroud?

Have you tried the hair curler mod? You would need cheap hair curlers from the dollar store ($1.25) and a piece of plastic felt from hobby lobby ($0.33). I put half a curler inside a baffle and put that against the bright aluminum piece, then a full curler in a baffle next and finally a third baffle against the end cap. Quiets the gun down but you have to slide the shroud forward a bit (3/4 inch or so) to fit this. If you don't want to do that, you could make the curler shorter. But you do not want the inside of the baffle, whatever is in there, free to move. If you already have clipped baffles this might allow you to only use the "good ones". You want the pieces fairly snug but not real tight inside the baffle. And definitely align them during assembly.

If these simple things involving only the shroud do not stop your clipping then I would definitely roll your barrel to see if it;s straight. To remove it you take off the shroud, take off the aluminum piece, then take off the cheek piece and loosen the cocking rod at the breech end. You should be able to lift it and move it to the side to reveal the grub screw holding the barrel. Loosen that and then the two screws that clamp the action to the barrel. The barrel should slide out but there are two O-rings at the breech end so there may be a bit of resistance.

If the barrel seems to be straight I would look closely at the crown. I purchased one of my P35s last October and two more in late May of this year. The newer ones are very accurate but the crown on both had bad chatter marks. I polished them out with JBs on a brass screw. I put the screw in a cordless drill and varied it's angle to the barrel as I polished. Takes a few minutes to eliminate the chatter. For me it was an accuracy change, I guess it's possible for your crown to be bad enough it could cause clipping.

It's also a good idea to use a wooden dowel or a cleaning rod to push a pellet through the barrel to try and feel any loose or tight spots.

The hole in your baffles is the same size as it would be if you bought a 25 caliber. It is plenty big for a 22. There is also an O-ring inside the last baffle out against the end cap. I put that baffle a different place in the stack and it got down into the pellet path and caused clipping on one of mine. My older P35 did not have the O-ring and I don't see why they need it but I put it back into my newer ones. But if you assemble your baffles using a soda straw to keep them straight as you screw the shroud on, you should not have clipping.

I am pretty sure your issue is something relatively simple in your shroud. I've had that happen several times. A simple way to check it is to make sure the gun is not loaded, open the cocking lever, shine a light into the breech and look down the barrel. If you see something other than the barrel rifling, you found your issue. If you cannot see the light, you have a pellet in the barrel and need to discharge it (not into yourself). I like the shroud of these guns because it permits them to be 85 db or less without anything more costly than hair curlers and felt but if things start moving around in the shroud you can get clipping and wild shots.
 
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I don't mind the tinkering though, but I can't machine parts myself. Is a bad crown recognisable on sight? Or isn't it that obvious? I'd rather look at this before already removing the barrel.

20220903_172736_S.jpg


20220903_172852_S.jpg
 
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Like Vetmx said, stop and check the crown and especially the rifling near the muzzle. SPA Is prone to using a nasty piloted crowning tool that chews up the rifling in the spot least forgiving of it.

SPA still doesn't get it - Diana Chaser rifling damage - Airguns & Guns Forum

SPA still doesn't get it - Diana Chaser rifling damage, Air guns, Airgun Forum
www.gatewaytoairguns.org

While you're at it, might as well also check the other end for a burr at the barrel port or a sharp transition into the rifling.

Barrel troubleshooting and accurizing how-to - Airguns & Guns Forum

Barrel troubleshooting and accurizing how-to, Air guns, Airgun Forum
www.gatewaytoairguns.org

It's really a shame that their workmanship is so abysmal because when those issues are fixed, they are good barrels.

[edit]While I was typing, you added the photos...the crown itself doesn't look too bad. Meaning I can make out a pretty distinct profile of the lands and grooves. Not obviously smeared like some I've seen. However it's much easier to spot a bad one in a photo than it is to ID a good one so pushing through some pellets and feeling for a little hitch just as the heads emerge from the muzzle will tell you if there is a burr (as described in the link above).

There isn't sufficient lighting to comment on the rifling.[/edit]
 
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JimD said:
I have 3 P35 and all will shoot a 1/4 group or smaller at 20 yards. Something is definitely up...
Click to expand...
Hey JimD, tnx for the reply.
Yes, the alu piece is in place with the ring. It feels tight when disassembling the shroud. Even without baffles, there seems to be too much lead debris ending up in the moderator. I tried putting plastice hair curler mods in the shroud but got ripped to pieces within 30 shots. I then tried a metal curler, that als got bent and ripped. Of course each time a mod was added, the base of the shroud was moved accordingly to fit everything tightly while nothing was moving around.

It looks indeed I'll have to get the barrel out to roll it. Thanks for the directions, as I need 'm. I posted pics of the crown above, but it's unclear if there' ssth to see. FWIW I got my P35 in May. I actually bought one only to be able to silence it as that 's one of the main purposes for me. I'll look into the barrel as soon as I have time to dissasemble the shroud again.

Edit: added pic to show how the curler came out of the shroud.

20220903_205628_S.jpg
 
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nervoustrig said:
However it's much easier to spot a bad one in a photo than it is to ID a good one so pushing through some pellets and feeling for a little hitch just as the heads emerge from the muzzle will tell you if there is a burr (as described in the link above).

There isn't sufficient lighting to comment on the rifling.[/edit]
Click to expand...
Good ideas. I'll see if I can dissamble the barrel tomorrow (it's already evening where I'm at) to roll it and push through a pellet. Thanks for the ideas.
 
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JimD said:
If these simple things involving only the shroud do not stop your clipping then I would definitely roll your barrel to see if it;s straight. To remove it you take off the shroud, take off the aluminum piece, then take off the cheek piece and loosen the cocking rod at the breech end. You should be able to lift it and move it to the side to reveal the grub screw holding the barrel. Loosen that and then the two screws that clamp the action to the barrel. The barrel should slide out but there are two O-rings at the breech end so there may be a bit of resistance.
Click to expand...
Before I start to remove the barrel, do I need to discharge the air from the pressure chamber, or is that not relevant? Last thing I 'd want is to have a sudden release of 200 Bar somewhere. Thanks.
 
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After seeing your crown I would take a really good look at the other end of the barrel. Like the other guys said, if you have a sharp edge or burr that shaves a pellet as you load it, it will go nuts. Do you have any clipping or accuracy issues when you single load the gun. Snowpeak also isn’t known for its stellar magazines. You might be shaving pellets before they even get past the transfer port.
 
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that kinda looks like a hatsan crown !!!
i've been working with this bullboss for a couple days and finally got it to shoot
somewhat better. i recrowned it the old school way with a 1/4 drill bit, then a 3/8 drill bit then finally a 1/2. all done by hand, not a drill !!
then used some valve lapping compound on the head of an acorn nut attached to a threaded
1/4" rod and chucked up in a cordless drill.
hey, it worked purdy dang good. i can put a full mag into 1 moa @35yrds now !!
much better than it was before 👨‍🌾
 
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My Skyhawk, a p-15, shroud was threaded crooked on both ends. Putting a Donny fl adapter made it clip as it lengthened the distance thus the angle. However Donnyfl does make an end cap that will allow their moderators to work on the 12mm barrel and you can ditch the shroud.

My baffles were poorly formed and would not stack correctly.

The barrel had a tight spot in front of the lead, I polished that out, improved accuracy somewhat, but accuracy was still bad.

I fixed it with a lw barrel and a new shroud.
It is how Snowpeak makes Airguns, great designs, poor quality. They are the Hasan of china.

On a side matter, I read some shooters test with 3 shot groups, that is similar to masterbation, it feels good at the time but you just screwing yourself. Your better off shooting 5 or ten shot groups so that others can compare to their guns and you eliminate the odds of misrepresentation, meaning a greater chances of a tight group when shooting fewer shots.

Roachcreek
 
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My P35-25 had a burr in the barrel port. Velocity went up about 15 fps when I removed it. My P35-22 and P35-177 did not have burrs. I polished the barrel and tried to smooth the leade with sandpaper in my P35-25 but it didn't seem to do anything. It will shoot a 1/4 inch 3 shot group at 25 and sometimes 33 yards but is not close to the accuracy of the 177 or 22. The crown seems to be recessed and I haven't been able to effectively polish it. But it shoots well enough to kill 18 squirrels so far.

My 22 and 177 looked like the photos. Some have called that chatter marks. I don't know but I did like the looks so I polished them out with JBs on a round head brass screw. Took 10-15 minutes per gun. I did not shoot before I did it so I don't really know it helped anything but both guns shoot well and it made me feel better. I think my 30 yard challenge score is a 184 with the 177 and a 191 with the 22. I consider that pretty good with me as the shooter and a couple sub $500 guns with sub $200 scopes.

I really think the straw down the shroud to align things is a big deal on these guns. I use the straw cleaning them too. I can put it all the way through the shroud on the 22 and 25. The baffles can move enough to get in the way of the pellet. I had a plastic curler get in the way of the half curler in my 22 recently too. When I disassembled it I found the shroud was no longer snug on the baffles and curlers. Something shifted because it was snug when I assembled it and it shot well for 200 shots or so. The half curler was demolished, however, and the felt came out the end of the barrel. I need to check the other two to make sure they stayed snug. A straw is not the only thing you could use, of course. The hole in the baffles is plenty big enough for a 1/4 dowel and you could sharpen the end so it would enter the barrel a bit to be centered. It could be a barrel issue, I guess, but not having the shroud internals lined up or having them shift during use seems like the most likely cause. It has been what caused my 22 and 25 to occasionally have clipping issues.

If you look down the barrel with the shroud filled and in place does the pellet path look clear? I wrapped curlers with fabric before getting some felt and even a few threads coming off the fabric threw pellets off. Once something is touched by a pellet it is likely to get worse quickly. My 22 was still usually hitting my pellet trap which is not much bigger than 8.5x11, however. I did not measure the "group" but I think it was over an inch. As I type this I remember a couple going in the lake, however. Clipping can throw shots quite a far off. I would not expect to repeatedly shoot ~3/4 inch groups with a gun that was clipping. Curious.
 
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The way I do the hair curlers is to use a spacer cut from aluminum tube that is about 1/16 longer than the curler, then wrap the curler with felt.

Then I put a fender washer on each end and stack enough to fill the volume. The washers seem to hold the curler and felt.

A more foolproof way is to Have a empty shroud that acts as an expansion chamber and feeds into a moderator.

I have a 20 inch barrel on my Skyhawk so the Oem shroud tube had to be moved forward to get 1 plus curler and looked backward. The shroud I had made up by Lee545 was long enough to hold a 1.75 curlers and still nake contact with the scope mount leg.

Even with all the precaution, it would clip now and then.

I see there was an individual on the Uk p-15 forum making great shrouds but I could never find contact info.

Best option? Many just screw on a Koi.

Regards,

Roachcreek

4FCA8BA1-0F27-4579-A117-BCEFE26E032E.jpeg
 
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I guess my guns do it too but I kind of don't understand how pellets hit the curlers and/or baffles but don't seem to hit the end cap of the shroud. At least I do not see impact marks on it. My half curler was demolished in the most recent incident but it comes first and is followed by a full curler (in a baffle at one end). The full curler did not show any damage nor did any of the 3 baffles in the shroud.

I do not see the clipping issues I have seen as reason enough to empty the shroud - but I'd do something if the best group I could get was .75 inches. But I am intrigued by the idea of my mid-80 db shroud followed by my Tanto. Might have to get the adapter from DonnyFL.
 
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If your shroud tube has misaligned threading like mine had, adding a Donny adapter to the end of the shroud will make your clipping worse. It will result in the moderator being at a crooked angle to the shroud.

At least that is what mine did.

If you remove the shroud and replace it with a donnyfl moderator with the p-15/Skyhawk end cap, 12mm I think, it will screw directly to the barrel. That p-15/Skyhawk end cap will also work with your Tanto.

The Tanto/shroud combo will work if you have one made that is straight.

All this is a mute point if your threads are machined straight. JSAR put mine in a lathe and turned it to check/discover my threads were misaligned on both ends, heh at least Snowpeak was consistent. ;)

They are great handling guns once you get the barrel and noise thing settled. My 22 was doing 45 fpe for a while with 25.39’s and a power plenum, accurate and quiet, but only after throwing away the barrel nd shroud. Mine spent a year in a cardboard box on a closet shelf before a great guy here got it running for me.

All this being said, listen to Vetmx, he warned me but I stubbornly did not listen.

Regards,

Roachcreek
 
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Jim,

Sorry I missed your question, I don’t read too well these days.

That is your air stripper, the oring centers it in the shroud. It will slide better with some silicone If you decide to toss the shroud, save that air stripper, it can be drilled out and threaded to 1/2-20 for shroud projects. However the p-15 barrels will only allow 11/12mm threading as they do not have the girth needed.

RC
 
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