HW/Weihrauch Spring piston guns, shooting tehcniques

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BryanH

BryanH

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Feb 24, 2018
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N.C., United States
My technique with spring guns transitioned to the artillery hold when i started using the internet to learn more about pellet guns. Thanks to Tom Gaylord and his blog, I learned a lot. Bought, fixed, and sold dozens of air rifles (at a huge loss). Lots of de-bur and lube tunes to Chinese and Turkish guns, even bought a few price-point PCP’s, too. But eventually I sold every airgun I had but the RWS 34 (which I passed down to my youngest adult son) and bought an R9.

With my R9 my technique got a little sloppy over time, because it didn’t have to be perfect to hit a small spinner past 20 yards. Eventually it evolved to a more standard hold but dead soft, and now I pull her tight to the shoulder like a high-powered rifle. Sure, I can shoot literal bughole groups with the artillery hold, resting my forward hand on a bag. About 1/8” at 25 yards if I am having a good day. But I can’t shoot like that in the woods.

I can shoot this gun off-hand as good if not better than any rifle I own holding her tight to the shoulder. Yes the POI is different with the artillery hold, but I have learned I don’t have to be perfectly consistent in my hold as long as I pull it in tight and follow through. I hold her on target until I see the hit. I can drill small targets, rocks, small spinners all day with this gun as far as I can hit without holdover, and it’s got some range. Holding my off-hand arm or elbow against a tree or door jamb, I can reach out there a little further still. But I can’t just lay the rifle flat on a hard rest and get results. Something about the hand, and the meat of the palm makes the difference. Works for me, tree squirrels and cottontails keep you on your feet and on the move.

So anyway, am I the only one out here holding his beloved R9 tight to the shoulder?
 
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After shooting springers for almost 25 years. Mostly in FT competition. It's been a frustrating experience peppered by short periods of zen like oneness with my rifle.

Here's my limited insight into the puzzling world of springers.

1. trigger control, needs to be smooth, and almost surgical precision. with follow through.
2. hold (whatever hold you want to use) needs to be consistent, repeatable, and comfortable to you.
3. Check your rifle. This could be as simple as checking periodically to ensure all screws are snugs. Tissue test, chrono, etc. I was told a long time ago, springers are either breaking down or breaking-in.
4. Build up that confidence in your rig. working on #1 and #2 should lead to #4. (some say shooting is 80% psychological and I totally agree).

I hesitate to recommend 5. which is to tune down your springer. I know there's a segment that likes magnum springers. For me it's hard to achieve #2 with a magnum. Because there's so much power pushing back that most of the time, it's hard to consistently hold the gun in the same position before the pellet exit the barrel.

But it's fun trying or else I would have switched to PCP a long time ago.
 
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JP806TX said:
After shooting springers for almost 25 years. Mostly in FT competition. It's been a frustrating experience peppered by short periods of zen like oneness with my rifle.

Here's my limited insight into the puzzling world of springers.

1. trigger control, needs to be smooth, and almost surgical precision. with follow through.
2. hold (whatever hold you want to use) needs to be consistent, repeatable, and comfortable to you.
3. Check your rifle. This could be as simple as checking periodically to ensure all screws are snugs. Tissue test, chrono, etc. I was told a long time ago, springers are either breaking down or breaking-in.
4. Build up that confidence in your rig. working on #1 and #2 should lead to #4. (some say shooting is 80% psychological and I totally agree).

I hesitate to recommend 5. which is to tune down your springer. I know there's a segment that likes magnum springers. For me it's hard to achieve #2 with a magnum. Because there's so much power pushing back that most of the time, it's hard to consistently hold the gun in the same position before the pellet exit the barrel.

But it's fun trying or else I would have switched to PCP a long time ago.
Click to expand...

All I can tell you is .177 Beeman R9 is the greatest break barrel of all time. I don’t know where to go from here. Maybe TX200 HC. Maybe Daystate Huntsman Revere.

No price point PCP I have tried can touch my R9, I can fully appreciate the cult of Weihrauch.
 
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The first and biggest thing you can do to ensure easy accuracy with a particular spring gun, is tune it for minimal bounce and the proper power level. Simply tuning it down doesn't always work, because on some guns it can introduce bounce. And bounce is numero uno to causing hold sensitivity issues.

If you do that, all the hocus pocus and artillery hold this and that will all but go away.

The only time I notice any POI difference in most of my spring guns is if rested on front and rear bags. Which I never do anyway.

The R9s are great guns, and part of that reason is that they come fairly well optimized in powerplant dimensions vs. power level.

As another member noted, whatever is most repeatable for you is what works. The gun does the same thing every time. The only thing that changes is on you.

Sounds like you have yours figured out! 🙂
 
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I have 4 Hw95 family guns in three calibers. My 177 95 is my most accurate of them at 50 yards. It floats between 14.5 and 15 fpe. I don't hold it tight or terribly loose either. I make sure my hands are in the same position everytime. I've tried tight and loose holds and neither worked for me. There's a happy medium that requires some control without rigidity.

I have too many Weihrauchs to cater my holds to each and every one. I will say that although it's counter intuitive the higher the power to weight ratio the more control I need in my hold. This means I hold my Hw30s much looser than my R1. I certainly hold neither tight to my shoulder. Consistency is key. My R1 vertical strings with inconsistent shoulder pressure.

The more time you spend with one rifle the better you'll shoot it.
 
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You can’t convince me a tune will make my gun more accurate and easy to shoot. I have calmed many a springer down with a tune, but this gun is something special. The spring noise don’t bother me when i can literally zap spent .22 cases at will.

I think the right pellet and the right pellet weight makes a difference, too. Not just with accuracy but less hold sensitivity.
 
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BryanH said:
You can’t convince me a tune will make my gun more accurate and easy to shoot. I have calmed many a springer down with a tune, but this gun is something special. The spring noise don’t bother me when i can literally zap spent .22 cases at will.

I think the right pellet and the right pellet weight makes a difference, too. Not just with accuracy but less hold sensitivity.
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You missed the point, I didn't say anything about noise.

And you also missed the point where I mentioned that the R9 is fairly optimized from the get-go.

Pellet weight has a bit to do with tuning the bounce point however, so you see the merit to what I mentioned, even if you don't know what it actually does.

Carry on then.
 
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I found hold makes little to no difference on my HW77 and Diana 48. Just be repeatable and comfortable.

I hold them tight to the shoulder, like a centerfire rifle, because I use them to practice for… drum roll… centerfire rifles.

My accuracy is excellent with the HW77. The Diana is another story, but changing my hold didn’t help/hurt.
 
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Nomadic Pirate 66 said:
That statement in itself is a big one,..............guess you didn't try many PCPs if any.
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None of my springers have shot a .47 C to C group at 75 yards yet. But my FX Crown does.
I can shoot shot shell hulls with the springer out there, but not consistently. The Crown can shoot asprin tablets. Non of my powder burners can can hang with that Crown, not even the Kidd custom 22Lr as yet.
 
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BryanH said:
You can’t convince me a tune will make my gun more accurate and easy to shoot. I have calmed many a springer down with a tune, but this gun is something special. The spring noise don’t bother me when i can literally zap spent .22 cases at will.

I think the right pellet and the right pellet weight makes a difference, too. Not just with accuracy but less hold sensitivity.
Click to expand...
At what distance are you zapping spent 22lr cases? You have a truly remarkable springer if it can out shoot all pcps.

I agree about the right pellet can change everything. Accuracy and power can both tied into the efficiency of the piston stroke. Pellet weight and fit changes the start pressure which changes stroke efficiency. The higher the weight and or tighter the fit the higher the start pressure. The higher the start pressure the earlier the piston bounces. The earlier it bounces the more times it's likely to bounce in the remainder of the stroke. Piston bounce robs efficiency (power) and usually accuracy from creating pulsating pressures behind the pellet.

The right pellet will have the ideal start pressure. That creates enough resistance for the piston to get as far forward as possible and reach peak pressure before popping the pellet out of the breech. This minimizes piston bounce which maximizes efficiency and gives the pellet a smoother push through the barrel.
Piston bounce from high start pressures usually translates to harshness. This is why 22 guns are a little smoother than the same gun in 177. 177 pellets are lighter than 22 pellets but 22s larger surface area reduces start pressures dramatically. This is why most springers make more power in 22 than 177.

Hold sensitivity and accuracy are both tied to efficiency. Piston and spring mass bouncing around and the subsequent changing pressures as the pellets trying make its way down the barrel makes a choppy ride down the barrel. The more choppy the pellets ride down the barrel the more hold sensitive it will be and likely less accurate.

Theres alot to be gained in pellet tuning a gun. My 177 Hw95 will shoot about 1"-1.5" at fifty yards most days. If I get a tin of the same pellets that fit better the gun will shoot 0.75"-.5" at fifty yards. That's how big a difference the right pellets can make. It's why many competitors size all their pellets.
 
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It would be any distance 25 yards and in, and i hit the spent .22 cases on the rimfire range at will. My limited experience with PCP’s, this gun is better. As I said, I am comparing to price point PCP’s, not a potential bench rest championship gun like a crown. Beats my Benjamin 392 also. I am sure there are some better, but inside 25 yards nothing I have can touch this gun. Comparing not just to PCP’s and a pumper, I am comparing it to centerfire rifles I own.

50 yards or further, no. But inside any practical range for a + or - 15 fpe, .177 gun, she shines.
 
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BryanH said:
It would be any distance 25 yards and in, and i hit the spent .22 cases on the rimfire range at will. My limited experience with PCP’s, this gun is better. As I said, I am comparing to price point PCP’s, not a potential bench rest championship gun like a crown. Beats my Benjamin 392 also. I am sure there are some better, but inside 25 yards nothing I have can touch this gun. Comparing not just to PCP’s and a pumper, I am comparing it to centerfire rifles I own.

50 yards or further, no. But inside any practical range for a + or - 15 fpe, .177 gun, she shines.
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I have a pumper that can do that good. In fact I have shot .25 cal airsoft pellets off of a tack at at a measured 75 feet with it.

20210720_131544_IMG_1130.PNG


Fortunately, I got that shoot on video.
Here's a screen shot.

Screenshot_20230425_201344_Gallery.jpg
 
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That is good shooting with a pistol. I guess I will have to do a video, too. I don’t own a gun better than my R9, have never shot a 1/8” 25 yardgroup with any other gun except my R9. I have a Ruger American .22 Mag that comes close to it at 25, but of course the .22 Mag wins at 50.

But I’ve never shot anything that shoots as good at 25 yards as my R9. And nothing comes close shooting off-hand. It’s not made to shoot from the bench.

I would not compare it to a world class bench rest gun like an FX Crown, but like I said, I don’t think a price point PCP can touch it.

In my experience that includes the Benjamin Discovery, Gamo Urban, and not one but two BSA Buccaneers.
 
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Here is a quick range report i did for my R9 about three years ago. All i did was pull a dry boresnake through the barrel, scope it, checked my stock screws, and take it to the range. The first 50 shots or so I ever fired through this gun are documented here.

That also includes the first 5 shot group at 25 yards with crosman hollow points, probably about .25” CTC give or take. Way smaller than a dime, ZERO break-in.

Also includes the first 50 yard groups, which were about 1.12” CTC with heavier pellets with a variable breeze. The Crosman hollow points were blown all over the place in that wind.

Say or think whatever you want. I have not used a price point PCP that shoots under 1.5” at 50 yards, maybe .5” at 25 with the best pellet. I think I paid $400 at the time of that review for my R9. The best price point PCP I ever used was a BSA buccaneer and it was not as consistent as my R9.

This gun is special, and no PCP in the $500 price range can touch it. Anyone can cherry pick a group, here are my first 50 shots with no break-in period.

Brand new Beeman R9 First impressions, range test

I ordered a .22 Beeman R9 from Straight Shooters, they accidentally sent me a .177. I like the gun so much, I decided to keep it anyway. I asked to exchange my .22 pellet sampler for .177, but they told me to keep it and sent one in .177 for free :) I also ordered a Hawke 2-7x32 scope and...
www.airgunnation.com www.airgunnation.com
 
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