That's a good idea.I have a couple of throating reamers for powder burners that I should have tried that with when I had one. I might have to buy another one just to experiment.
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N/A Springer power mods tips??
- Thread starter BABz58
- Start date
Absolutely fun to try. I'm all for tinkering. Just a heads up though, sometimes you can overtinker and Gamo won't sell you a replacement part if you break it. Hatsan on the other hand will be happy to so I would get a 135 and a fill probe and go that route for your experiment. A 17gr slug in the upper 900s isn't out of the question for that gun
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Some pcp with choked barrels shoot slugs decently, but the consensus is it hurts. Also the twist rate of springers are for pellets, yet another obstacle. No polishing will make up for twist.
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Springers lose lots of energy with heavy pellets. Forget slugs. Springers work with a limited quick puff of air. That puff doesn't have enough energy to drive heavy pellets at peak efficiency. Much less slugs. You need to keep things in perspective. You can fight physics if you want. Let me know when you win.
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Pipe dreams. … no springer will shoot slugs. I’ve made 35 ft lb springers. They are designed for skirted pellets with their 1/16 1/17 twist …
get a pcp. I’ve detuned every gun but one , just to show it can do 30 plus . 15 to 20 max and accurate to 50:yards
get a pcp. I’ve detuned every gun but one , just to show it can do 30 plus . 15 to 20 max and accurate to 50:yards
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I also would recommend starting with a Hatsan 135. It's simply the most powerful springer made, it's cheap and it can be easily modified for more power.
The problem I see with what you want to do is that you won't get any advantage from it. Powerful spring guns typically aren't very accurate and the more powerful you make them the less accurate they become and slugs don't have any real advantages at the kind of ranges your ultra magnum rifle is going to shoot "well" at.
The problem I see with what you want to do is that you won't get any advantage from it. Powerful spring guns typically aren't very accurate and the more powerful you make them the less accurate they become and slugs don't have any real advantages at the kind of ranges your ultra magnum rifle is going to shoot "well" at.
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Mike Ellingsworth rammed and tuned a 135 in .25 for me many years ago.It was above 30 fpe and a beast.i could only occasionally shoot under inch at 25 yards but it worked as a good Eurasian Dove killer.The gun died when the barrel slipped out of my hands while cocking it in freezing weather. (yes ,both hands needed to cock the beast)
The barrel bent so bad It could shoot around corners....
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Thanks for your input. I appreciate the different views. It’s how I learn.
It probably is best left as a memorable random daydream .
I really do enjoy shooting a springer. I love the challenge. Feels rewarding to shoot tight groups. Like a woman. You got to learn to hold her just right.
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I really like the 135 myself. I'm not a huge fan of Hatsan in general, but I think they hit it out of the park with that rifle.
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I watched that a few years ago. I watched it again to see if I missed anything. His results and dialog only agree with what I said. I wasn't sure if you posted it to counter or confirm what I said. It's a good video. Hes a likable guy and his videos are well done.
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The key hear (if wanting to shoot heavier slugs etc at power) is forget about little plastic Top hats I.E Tinbum kits..
They are fine if you want a very mild mannered 10ftlb gun with a range of 30 yds but a flat trajectory with slugs out to 40 plus will want a steel Top hat, either swapping back in the OEM spec part as with the Prosport ..(shoots much better with the steel Top hat as AA intended) or getting one made...
This additional weight pushes on through the secondary recoil caused by bigger heavier pellets causing piston bounce on the extra cushion of air created by the tighter or heavier pellet...
Do not base everything on nice mannered shot cycle...
Higher vel means flatter trajectory, less wind effects and less time in the barrel ....
They are fine if you want a very mild mannered 10ftlb gun with a range of 30 yds but a flat trajectory with slugs out to 40 plus will want a steel Top hat, either swapping back in the OEM spec part as with the Prosport ..(shoots much better with the steel Top hat as AA intended) or getting one made...
This additional weight pushes on through the secondary recoil caused by bigger heavier pellets causing piston bounce on the extra cushion of air created by the tighter or heavier pellet...
Do not base everything on nice mannered shot cycle...
Higher vel means flatter trajectory, less wind effects and less time in the barrel ....
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It's a completely different ball game.But some of the most accurate powder burner barrels for cast bullets in Schuetzen rifles are choked.
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There'sa lot of info here but not a lot of helpful stuff for your goal.
Back in the 80s, Beeman related some tests done on the R1, I believe... they measured the peak temp at over 1800 deg F... One of the major problems you run into trying to generate a lot of power is just that... piston seals burn quickly. Never mind all the forces at play here trying to compress enough air instantly to do the work for you. John Whiscombe went to automotive type steel piston rings in his later, higher powered versions for that reason but there are tradeoffs... as with everything. To move a slug down the barrel requires quite a bit of sustained pressure... most springers don't sustain that much pressure, even if they can peak pretty high.
On messing with the transfer port, be very careful here as that's what keeps the piston and chamber from destruction. Jim Maccari drilled and tapped the transfer port and used grub screws that were drilled to different diameters to fine tune that when he was doing power development. He's not a bad source of info if he'll talk to you... he tested a BUNCH way back to see what power was available but this was before slugs had become widely available.
I personally align with the general thinking here that it's not a rewarding path to go down... it takes a lot of pressure in a pcp to shoot slugs and springers just can't give that. Even a light slug is still difficult to push down the barrel compared to pellets... which are designed for more limited pressures. Then you also want to look at the ballistics... at what point does the slug actually give better bc's than the pellet? For example, A Daystate RW 22 shoots 20 gn slugs pretty well and also 25.4 gn pellets. In my experience, those slugs get blown more in the wind than the pellets do at longer ranges... so WHY would I want to go there?
Anyway, people pursuing the edge of the envelope is what got us to where we are today in most everything... if you choose to go for it... best of luck...
Bob
Back in the 80s, Beeman related some tests done on the R1, I believe... they measured the peak temp at over 1800 deg F... One of the major problems you run into trying to generate a lot of power is just that... piston seals burn quickly. Never mind all the forces at play here trying to compress enough air instantly to do the work for you. John Whiscombe went to automotive type steel piston rings in his later, higher powered versions for that reason but there are tradeoffs... as with everything. To move a slug down the barrel requires quite a bit of sustained pressure... most springers don't sustain that much pressure, even if they can peak pretty high.
On messing with the transfer port, be very careful here as that's what keeps the piston and chamber from destruction. Jim Maccari drilled and tapped the transfer port and used grub screws that were drilled to different diameters to fine tune that when he was doing power development. He's not a bad source of info if he'll talk to you... he tested a BUNCH way back to see what power was available but this was before slugs had become widely available.
I personally align with the general thinking here that it's not a rewarding path to go down... it takes a lot of pressure in a pcp to shoot slugs and springers just can't give that. Even a light slug is still difficult to push down the barrel compared to pellets... which are designed for more limited pressures. Then you also want to look at the ballistics... at what point does the slug actually give better bc's than the pellet? For example, A Daystate RW 22 shoots 20 gn slugs pretty well and also 25.4 gn pellets. In my experience, those slugs get blown more in the wind than the pellets do at longer ranges... so WHY would I want to go there?
Anyway, people pursuing the edge of the envelope is what got us to where we are today in most everything... if you choose to go for it... best of luck...
Bob
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I was agreeing,if you read my response.
"The Howlers did decent.
only reason I see to use slugs in a spring gun is if you can swage your own for cheap"
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