Sorry i didn't see your response as it was boxed in at the bottom of the quote of my post. I didn't open my quote as I knew what I wrote.
I enjoy the challenge of shooting a springer with its quirks. I like my PCPs too. Just for different reasons
How do I reach Rich Shar? I’d love to send him my Magnums.Hello everyone, this subject is one of my passions. What he is asking for can probably be done with a .177 caliber springers but not with the weight he wants. There are a number of variables that come to play with a spring(gas ram)gun. I wish there was a way we could all have a live conversation about this so I could go into more detail about all the variables. I will try to go into short detail about 1. Temperature, really effects what power you will get from these guns. Hotter air gives more pressure then cold air that simple. My oldest son( which this was a humble experience showed me) . Take a hair dryer and warm up a cold compression tube it don't take long about 2 or 3 minutes. Make the tube warm NOT hot to the touch. Chrony the gun then warm the compression tube as stated above. For every degree up you will gain about 1.26 fps. For the people that think I am crazy, please read what Tom Gaylord wrote.
One attraction I usually see at the Cup is Rich Shar. Rich drives over from Indiana to show me what he has done with his bevy of large-caliber breakbarrel springers. I have reported on this before, but every year Rich raise the power bar a little higher and increases the smoothness at the same time. The first rifle I fired was his custom .30 cal. Hatsan 135.
I’m shooting a custom .30 cal. Hatsan 135 that Rich built a couple years ago. He has continued to use it as his testbed and I must tell you — this .30 caliber powerhouse shoots as smooth as an ASP20!
Hatsan and Sig — you had both better pay attention. Rich has used his son’s knowledge of materials to continually improve the performance of this powerhouse. How far has he gone? Would you believe a breakbarrel spring-piston air rifle can generate 44.91 foot-pounds and still not slap your face?
The rifle I am shooting shot this 51.15-grain pellet…
… this fast! I took the picture because I couldn’t believe it! A stock rifle is about 100 f.p.s. slower. Hatsan knows!
This year Rich showed me a Gamo Magnum that he had reworked. I was surprised at how smooth it shot. It felt like an HW 50 that had an application of Tune in a Tube, yet this is a full-power breakbarrel magnum springer! So — Gamo — pay attention, too. Rich Shar has secrets of power and smoothness that all manufacturers could benefit from. Some of his treatments are labor-intensive and not suited to rate production, but others are! He’s worth talking to!
I'd very much like to see him take that same rifle and slugs of a similar weight to the JSB's and do some testing to see what kinds of numbers he gets with slugs vs pellets. From my own limited tinkering, although mine was with .20 caliber , the just about grain lesser weight NSA 14.9gr slugs were lower than the numbers I got with the JSB 15.89gr Heavy .20 cal pellets.Hello everyone, this subject is one of my passions. What he is asking for can probably be done with a .177 caliber springers but not with the weight he wants. There are a number of variables that come to play with a spring(gas ram)gun. I wish there was a way we could all have a live conversation about this so I could go into more detail about all the variables. I will try to go into short detail about 1. Temperature, really effects what power you will get from these guns. Hotter air gives more pressure then cold air that simple. My oldest son( which this was a humble experience showed me) . Take a hair dryer and warm up a cold compression tube it don't take long about 2 or 3 minutes. Make the tube warm NOT hot to the touch. Chrony the gun then warm the compression tube as stated above. For every degree up you will gain about 1.26 fps. For the people that think I am crazy, please read what Tom Gaylord wrote.
One attraction I usually see at the Cup is Rich Shar. Rich drives over from Indiana to show me what he has done with his bevy of large-caliber breakbarrel springers. I have reported on this before, but every year Rich raise the power bar a little higher and increases the smoothness at the same time. The first rifle I fired was his custom .30 cal. Hatsan 135.
I’m shooting a custom .30 cal. Hatsan 135 that Rich built a couple years ago. He has continued to use it as his testbed and I must tell you — this .30 caliber powerhouse shoots as smooth as an ASP20!
Hatsan and Sig — you had both better pay attention. Rich has used his son’s knowledge of materials to continually improve the performance of this powerhouse. How far has he gone? Would you believe a breakbarrel spring-piston air rifle can generate 44.91 foot-pounds and still not slap your face?
The rifle I am shooting shot this 51.15-grain pellet…
… this fast! I took the picture because I couldn’t believe it! A stock rifle is about 100 f.p.s. slower. Hatsan knows!
This year Rich showed me a Gamo Magnum that he had reworked. I was surprised at how smooth it shot. It felt like an HW 50 that had an application of Tune in a Tube, yet this is a full-power breakbarrel magnum springer! So — Gamo — pay attention, too. Rich Shar has secrets of power and smoothness that all manufacturers could benefit from. Some of his treatments are labor-intensive and not suited to rate production, but others are! He’s worth talking to!
Exactly. And for some reason I find the super magnums to be particularly entertaining. There’s something about shooting a target with a powerful springer that just makes it more satisfying than shooting it with an equivalent PCP. My Hatsan 135 might not be any more powerful than my AA S410 but something about the heft and the recoil just entertains my lizard brain more when I score a hit on something.
Did you get in touch with Rich Shar ?
I did get ahold of him. Haven’t sent him my Gamo yet. Waiting till I feel that I have the extra play money to have him work his magic.
Very well put. My Gamo Magnum.25 cocks hard, kicks hard & hits hard.
You really should read before you might ruin a gun and spend money , books can be ordered into a library just look up the book on line and take it to your local library , they will order on loan for you . no charge .It really shouldn’t be THAT hard to take a Magnum springer in .22 that shoots lightweight pellets at 1300fps. To get it up to 1000fps with a moderate weight slug like the peanut
Can't agree with you. My hw97 equiped vith pg4 vortek spring and seal using H&N 10 Gr slug is laser beam precise up to 70-80 even 100m. It deliver 205 m/sec. I'm using it for pesting pigeons, crows and corvids. I was tried to add more power adding additional preload but result was poor in added velocity and it was kicking like mule.
Maybe it’s a pipe dream
. Maybe it’s the journey and not the destination . I’m not trying to make it a slug gun. But I’d love to see how well it can shoot slugs. Maybe I’ll end up just shooting heavier pellets in it
I don't think either is close to maxed out yet. So far as PCP's go, we haven't really pushed things very far in regards to pressure yet. Guns have only recently started to exceed 4500 psi and most have regulated pressures well below that.
Helium doesn't make much sense as a propellent. Sure, it does expand more quickly than air, but it's a limited and fairly expensive resource and if people are having trouble with O-rings now, helium will increase them by an order of magnitude.
