N/A Springers and bipods Hatsan 135 and TX200

[Sawney Bean]

I thought I’d revisit this again and post the results here. The two guns in question were a Hatsan 135 shooting 44.75 gr JSBs at around 550 fps, (30 fpe), and a TX200 with a 12 fpe vortek kit in it shooting 8.64 H&N FTTs.

All groups were shot at 35 yards. The rested groups were shot off of a rolled up blanket using the back of my hand as a rear rest and the bipod rested groups were shot using a two piece bipod mounted to picattiny rails attached to the forearms.

TX200 5 shots rested 35 yards. Gun zeroed at 50 yards.

TX200 5 shots from bipod at 35 yards

Hatsan 135 5 shots from rest with 35 yard zero, (sights appear to be off)

Hatsan 135 5? Shots from bipod, maybe 4

So what you can see here is that the Hatsan really doesn’t like the bipod. Not only is the group abysmal, it fires to a radically different point of impact.

The TX200 on the other hand shoots pretty well with the bipod, but noticeably better off a rest, but most importantly, it shoots to the same point of impact off a bipod.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement of bipods on springers, but not a complete condemnation either.

 

[Mycapt65]

I'm gonna guess the TX did better on the bipod because of its lower power to weight ratio.
I don't use bipods on springers I don't even use a rest. I do use bipods with powder burners. On those I find the lighter guns tend to jump higher off the bench than heavier guns of the same cartridge. Stock design has something to do with the jump but in broader terms weight helps stability.

POI will change, sometimes drastically between bipods and being held. For that reason I zero my hunting rifles the way they would be used in field. I knew I guy that blew his first few shots on a big dollar guided African hunt because he zeroed the gun on a bipod at the range before he went.

Any tiny variance of hold or positioning can change the poi on a springer.

 

[Sawney Bean]

I'm gonna guess the TX did better on the bipod because of its lower power to weight ratio.
I don't use bipods on springers I don't even use a rest. I do use bipods with powder burners. On those I find the lighter guns tend to jump higher off the bench than heavier guns of the same cartridge. Stock design has something to do with the jump but in broader terms weight helps stability.

POI will change, sometimes drastically between bipods and being held. For that reason I zero my hunting rifles the way they would be used in field. I knew I guy that blew his first few shots on a big dollar guided African hunt because he zeroed the gun on a bipod at the range before he went.

Any tiny variance of hold or positioning can change the poi on a springer.

I think that’s it exactly as the last time I did this I also got decent groups off the bipod, but they shot to a more different point of impact. Back then the rifle was tuned to 17 foot pounds and was much more hold sensitive.

 

[bustachip]

I'm gonna guess the TX did better on the bipod because of its lower power to weight ratio.
I don't use bipods on springers I don't even use a rest. I do use bipods with powder burners. On those I find the lighter guns tend to jump higher off the bench than heavier guns of the same cartridge. Stock design has something to do with the jump but in broader terms weight helps stability.

POI will change, sometimes drastically between bipods and being held. For that reason I zero my hunting rifles the way they would be used in field. I knew I guy that blew his first few shots on a big dollar guided African hunt because he zeroed the gun on a bipod at the range before he went.

Any tiny variance of hold or positioning can change the poi on a springer.

I've shot some of my smallest groups off of shooting sticks (or bipod), also shot really small ones off of a front bag and rear bag. I have to really be consistent and focused for the bipod to work good.

 

[Sawney Bean]

I've shot some of my smallest groups off of shooting sticks (or bipod), also shot really small ones off of a front bag and rear bag. I have to really be consistent and focused for the bipod to work good.

I wonder about the placement of the bipod. Powerful springers like the Hatsan are very hold sensitive and it very well could be that it just didn’t shoot well with a bipod mounted near the front of the stock or with the shouldering technique I was using. Shooting sticks might make it easier to experiment with that.

I don’t even really want to shoot that particular rifle off a bipod, I just want to understand what it is about springers that make them shoot well or poorly off of one.

 

[bustachip]

I wonder about the placement of the bipod. Powerful springers like the Hatsan are very hold sensitive and it very well could be that it just didn’t shoot well with a bipod mounted near the front of the stock or with the shouldering technique I was using. Shooting sticks might make it easier to experiment with that.

I don’t even really want to shoot that particular rifle off a bipod, I just want to understand what it is about springers that make them shoot well or poorly off of one.

Well IMO, where the rifle rests on the bipod has a lot to do with it, and when you figure out that place, you need to repeat it every time you shoot.
Also, the bipod not being attached means a lot, so the springer has some rearward slide when fired from the bipod. Just like when fired off the bag from the bench, it slides backwards.
With my 97K and Prosport I find that at the rear of the sliding breech is the sweet spot.
If you rest in the middle then there's too much muzzle side to side moving around and causing wild shots. IMO more towards the front is better, but, you have to find what the rifle likes.

Also, the way you hold the rifle and the trigger break is key. I try not to put any pressure on the butt of the rifle with my cheek, I put pressure into my shoulder and steady the muzzle with my off hand, whether in the middle of the forearm or up front by the yoke of the bipod.

Also helps to have something on the yoke like a sock or some pipe insulation foam, which is what I use, I have used cut up pool noodle..lol. But these will give it some slide when fired.

Here's my current set up.

You do have to put in your practice to get good shooting from sticks, and experiment with different techniques till you find what your particular rifle like. Then practice it every day until your satisfied.

 

[Mycapt65]

I've shot some of my smallest groups off of shooting sticks (or bipod), also shot really small ones off of a front bag and rear bag. I have to really be consistent and focused for the bipod to work good.

Shooting sticks while very similar to a bipod in appearances are still somewhat different. Shooting sticks are much longer and not attached to the gun. They allow the rifle more unincumbered free motion. Plus it's easier to shift the guns support position on sticks to find the optimal support point.

Shooting sticks behave more like a rest than a traditional clamp on bipod.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm sure you're a better shooter than I. I'm just trying to point out some different things about the two set ups.

Be well
Ron

 

[bustachip]

Shooting sticks while very similar to a bipod in appearances are still somewhat different. Shooting sticks are much longer and not attached to the gun. They allow the rifle more unincumbered free motion. Plus it's easier to shift the guns support position on sticks to find the optimal support point.

Shooting sticks behave more like a rest than a traditional clamp on bipod.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm sure you're a better shooter than I. I'm just trying to point out some different things about the two set ups.

Be well
Ron

Yes they are different, I should've worded my post as such. I guess what I was trying to say is the shooting sticks will be more forgiving than a bipod that is attached to the springer. I've never used a attached bipod on a springer, only on PB's. So I don't know from experience, but I assume the sticks will be more accurate, allowing for movement of the rifle.