Stupid law or am I missing something.

[450BM]

I live in Pennsylvania and have hunted here for 40+ years. Just got a new FX Impact .25 sniper and was thinking this would be a great squirrel rifle. I didn’t buy it for that but after shooting it, I know it would just about perfect. So, thought I’d check PA game laws to make sure we can hunt small game with air rifles now. We never used to be able to but now we can, as long as it’s .177 or 22 caliber! How freaking stupid is that? What am I missing? Pellets are too large and they don’t want those huge chunks of lead (25 grain) flying around the woods? I guess a 40 grain 22 cal slug or a 40 grain bullet from 22 rf would be better…

Somebody enlighten me please.

 

[Sqwirl57]

Nope that is in fact the current law of the land. Has been for years. I have a .25 Dreamline that I use on private property (my own) but if I go out I grab the .22 cal. I'm never really hunting anything that .22 can't handle anyway. The benefit of the .25 is mostly just range so without that I just creep in closer for the clean shot. I do wish they'd fix it though. Who should we email/call nonstop until they do?

 

[Deepbass9]

.177 and .22 for small game, .22 min for groundhogs, .22 and up for furbearers. Be thankful you don't live in a special regulations area like I do, as .22 is the max., period. So I've been taking foxes handily with high powered .22's, though I'd rather be using .30...

 

[ghoststalker]

Soooo, it does look as the goberment is stepping in, where's sasquase ?

 

[AirNGasman]

Obviously a law born of ignorance, and an excellent example of how ignorant even most hunters are about airguns. But neither are professional bureaucrats exactly known for their deep insight(s); much less competency.

 

[BackStop]

I live in Pennsylvania and have hunted here for 40+ years. Just got a new FX Impact .25 sniper and was thinking this would be a great squirrel rifle. I didn’t buy it for that but after shooting it, I know it would just about perfect. So, thought I’d check PA game laws to make sure we can hunt small game with air rifles now. We never used to be able to but now we can, as long as it’s .177 or 22 caliber! How freaking stupid is that? What am I missing? Pellets are too large and they don’t want those huge chunks of lead (25 grain) flying around the woods? I guess a 40 grain 22 cal slug or a 40 grain bullet from 22 rf would be better…

Somebody enlighten me please.

.177 or .22 are actually much better tree rat calibers IMHO... if you make shot placement and accuracy/precision your goal.

I have been doing it in my backyard with .177/10.5 grains @ ~750fps (less than 13fpe) for several years (from 10 to 50 yards and occasionally (3 times) at ~75-80 yards) with great terminal success (DRT) when my shots are placed well. (smile)

.25 is much more than is needed to take tree rats if you are accurate/precise with your shots. JMHO. (smile)

 

[luckybuckeye]

I assume that most hunting laws and regulations are wrote by unelected people and rubber stamped by the legislature and governor. At least they have allowed air gun hunting so they are open to modern equipment. You could write a letter or email to your state department that handles hunting and suggest that they make a change. They may be unaware that .25 exist.

 

[Calbarry]

I assume that most hunting laws and regulations are wrote by unelected people and rubber stamped by the legislature and governor. At least they have allowed air gun hunting so they are open to modern equipment. You could write a letter or email to your state department that handles hunting and suggest that they make a change. They may be unaware that .25 exist.

+1 The law was probably written when .177 and .22 were the only calibers. As lucky says, write them a nice letter to inform them. Who knows, they might listen

 

[Vetmx]

Looking at it from our perspective is like what’s the difference between a slow .25 or a fast .22. But you have to look at it from their perspective. Airguns might only be a flea on the back of the game commission. Everything and all the money is in big game. Not tree rats and rabbits. So naturally they put very little focus on Billy and his pellet gun. But that works to our advantage. Go hunt with your .25. With Airguns being so obscure, a warden won’t know the difference unless you believe he is carrying calipers. If stopped, don’t brag about your toy and peak his interest. Or, because you bought an Impact, convert it to .22 for hunting. Maybe shrink it down with a 5 or 600mm barrel. You don’t need all that pipe for hunting squirrels anyway.

 

[450BM]

Looking at it from our perspective is like what’s the difference between a slow .25 or a fast .22. But you have to look at it from their perspective. Airguns might only be a flea on the back of the game commission. Everything and all the money is in big game. Not tree rats and rabbits. So naturally they put very little focus on Billy and his pellet gun. But that works to our advantage. Go hunt with your .25. With Airguns being so obscure, a warden won’t know the difference unless you believe he is carrying calipers. If stopped, don’t brag about your toy and peak his interest. Or, because you bought an Impact, convert it to .22 for hunting. Maybe shrink it down with a 5 or 600mm barrel. You don’t need all that pipe for hunting squirrels anyway.

All good points but, any airgun, especially an Impact, would pique a wardens interest and they’d be looking at it closely. I think my best defense if I were stopped would be to plead ignorant of the .25 caliber being too large.

I don’t need nor want to put at .22 cal barrel on it just to hunt squirrels. I have two superb squirrel rifles already, a Kimber HS in 22 lr and a CZ 452 in 17M2. It’s just the fact that we get so many stupid laws that seem designed to trap an honest guy into breaking them is what is absolutely maddening.

I don’t know if it’s worth making any noise over. Government is always looking for more ways to regulate, especially anything to do with guns. If they really knew how powerful (and silent) the new air rifles are, they would certainly try to regulate them more. Probably best to just shut my mouth and don’t draw any attention to air rifles or myself.

 

[beerthief]

I live in Pennsylvania and have hunted here for 40+ years. Just got a new FX Impact .25 sniper and was thinking this would be a great squirrel rifle. I didn’t buy it for that but after shooting it, I know it would just about perfect. So, thought I’d check PA game laws to make sure we can hunt small game with air rifles now. We never used to be able to but now we can, as long as it’s .177 or 22 caliber! How freaking stupid is that? What am I missing? Pellets are too large and they don’t want those huge chunks of lead (25 grain) flying around the woods? I guess a 40 grain 22 cal slug or a 40 grain bullet from 22 rf would be better…

Somebody enlighten me please.

FX inpact you can just change barrels easy use .25 on privet land and .22 public

 

[450BM]

.177 or .22 are actually much better tree rat calibers IMHO... if you make shot placement and accuracy/precision your goal.

I have been doing it in my backyard with .177/10.5 grains @ ~750fps (less than 13fpe) for several years (from 10 to 50 yards and occasionally (3 times) at ~75-80 yards) with great terminal success (DRT) when my shots are placed well. (smile)

.25 is much more than is needed to take tree rats if you are accurate/precise with your shots. JMHO. (smile)

I have to disagree with the .177 being a much better tree rat caliber than .25 caliber. Much more affected by wind and doesn’t have the mass/knock down power on a less than perfect shot. There is no such thing as too dead and saying “if you are accurate/precise with your shots” has to assume everyone is, not just us. And of course it doesn’t matter what caliber you are using if just spraying the trees with lead, squirrels will still be wounded and get away, but larger calibers will raise the chances of one shot kills.

I’m not trying to be ignorant, I very much appreciate your opinion and like the discussion!

 

[Blake1521]

I live in Pennsylvania and have hunted here for 40+ years. Just got a new FX Impact .25 sniper and was thinking this would be a great squirrel rifle. I didn’t buy it for that but after shooting it, I know it would just about perfect. So, thought I’d check PA game laws to make sure we can hunt small game with air rifles now. We never used to be able to but now we can, as long as it’s .177 or 22 caliber! How freaking stupid is that? What am I missing? Pellets are too large and they don’t want those huge chunks of lead (25 grain) flying around the woods? I guess a 40 grain 22 cal slug or a 40 grain bullet from 22 rf would be better…

Somebody enlighten me please.

People with no hunting experience making hunting laws

 

[Calbarry]

All good points but, any airgun, especially an Impact, would pique a wardens interest and they’d be looking at it closely. I think my best defense if I were stopped would be to plead ignorant of the .25 caliber being too large.

I don’t need nor want to put at .22 cal barrel on it just to hunt squirrels. I have two superb squirrel rifles already, a Kimber HS in 22 lr and a CZ 452 in 17M2. It’s just the fact that we get so many stupid laws that seem designed to trap an honest guy into breaking them is what is absolutely maddening.

I don’t know if it’s worth making any noise over. Government is always looking for more ways to regulate, especially anything to do with guns. If they really knew how powerful (and silent) the new air rifles are, they would certainly try to regulate them more. Probably best to just shut my mouth and don’t draw any attention to air rifles or myself.S

All good points but, any airgun, especially an Impact, would pique a wardens interest and they’d be looking at it closely. I think my best defense if I were stopped would be to plead ignorant of the .25 caliber being too large.

I don’t need nor want to put at .22 cal barrel on it just to hunt squirrels. I have two superb squirrel rifles already, a Kimber HS in 22 lr and a CZ 452 in 17M2. It’s just the fact that we get so many stupid laws that seem designed to trap an honest guy into breaking them is what is absolutely maddening.

I don’t know if it’s worth making any noise over. Government is always looking for more ways to regulate, especially anything to do with guns. If they really knew how powerful (and silent) the new air rifles are, they would certainly try to regulate them more. Probably best to just shut my mouth and don’t draw any attention to air rifles or myself.

If I were a warden and you told me you didn't know the law, you'd get a cite for sure. The first rule of hinting is to know ALL the laws pertaining to the game you're hunting.

 

[elh0102]

I wouldn't encourage anyone to violate the law, but I wonder if the typical wildlife officer would even check the caliber of an air rifle? And further, if the officer noticed it was a .25, would you be cited? As my good friend and retired cop says, there are good tickets, and there are chickensh.... tickets. This would clearly fall in the latter category.

 

[450BM]

If I were a warden and you told me you didn't know the law, you'd get a cite for sure. The first rule of hinting is to know ALL the laws pertaining to the game you're hunting.

I wouldn’t make a good warden or cop…. I’d be too lenient on chickenpoop bs and would have a hard time taking someone into custody that just killed someone.

 

[BackStop]

I have to disagree with the .177 being a much better tree rat caliber than .25 caliber. Much more affected by wind and doesn’t have the mass/knock down power on a less than perfect shot. There is no such thing as too dead and saying “if you are accurate/precise with your shots” has to assume everyone is, not just us. And of course it doesn’t matter what caliber you are using if just spraying the trees with lead, squirrels will still be wounded and get away, but larger calibers will raise the chances of one shot kills.

I’m not trying to be ignorant, I very much appreciate your opinion and like the discussion!

Apparently you missed the part where I said "if you make shot placement and accuracy/precision your goal."

.25 is overkill for tree rats. Yes, dead is dead, but blowing out massive amounts of tissue isn't necessary for good clean kills. (smile)

And the wind is rarely an issue at the distances MOST people will reasonably be taking tree rats with an airgun.

 

[BackStop]

Speaking about game wardens. Where I live, there are some good ones. I like nearly all of them and they DO know all about airguns. Don't go out thinking you are going to fool them. That is a fool's errand. JMHO

 

[Sqwirl57]

You can make it your goal all you want but .25 is still the more guaranteed option. 25 doesn't do that much more tissue damage than a .22 and if you're going for a dome shot it doesn't matter anyway. Shoot, most non airgun hunters I know use 410 for squirrels....

I'll die on this hill. 25 cal is the best small bore PCP PELLET caliber there is. The versatility of it is amazing and it still gets a decent shot count with excellent down range energy all while being a relatively flat trajectory within reason. If I need more oomph or range than that, 22lr is my go to quiet option. 17hmr if I can go loud.

 

[Chuck-in-Ohio]

While I truly love popping squirrels in the nugget with a pin point precise .177, I find that outside of my property confines I default to a .22 with Hades for stationary hunting or a .25 shooting MKll pellets for woods roaming.

My pin point precision with certain .177s ends when I lose the use of a steady rest as an aid. Knowing my property well enough after 22 years, I am comfortable doing it round the ranch.

The .22 gives me a little fudge factor if shooting from the sitting or kneeling. I suffer from a bit of the old sight wobble, and like the added energy as a fail safe. Not a fail safe for a poorly placed shot mind you, a fail safe for a shot that goes slightly low and inside. We all get em at times....

The .25 gives me options for when multiple species are in season. I like the feeling of being equipped to smash a squirrel or ring a raccoons bell equally.

Then again, I very well may be delusional and am justifying owning multiple airguns by inventing uses for them.
My wife took that justification hook, line and sinker though! While she did not concede that it made perfect sense, she did roll her eyes while shaking her head, which means basically that she agrees. Right?