Stupid law or am I missing something.

[N2 Shooter]

Very nice! Was it hard to get the slugs to shoot well?

I really didn't do anything at all to get them to shoot well, they just did. When I received my Maverick, it was shooting JSB Exact pellets at 850fps, and it would put pellet on top of pellet for as long as I had pellets. Not one raggedy hole, it was seriously hole in hole. I thought the I loaded the magazine wrong and it was not shooting at all it was so good.

So then I increased my regulator pressures and added a heavier hammer weight, (as it shipped from the factory with a hammer weight for a .22cal by mistake), and then I got JSB Exacts, Hades and FX Hybrid Slugs shooting at 930fps on max hammer spring, and I was satisfied. I did buy a few different weights of NSA slugs, but with the expansion I get from the Hybrids, I didn't really entertain the NSA slugs.

The Hybrids will do MOA if I do my part. I have verified 92 yard kills, and I'm pretty sure I had a 127 yard kill, but I could not recover the pest.

 

[HogKiller]

Looking at it from our perspective is like what’s the difference between a slow .25 or a fast .22. But you have to look at it from their perspective. Airguns might only be a flea on the back of the game commission. Everything and all the money is in big game. Not tree rats and rabbits. So naturally they put very little focus on Billy and his pellet gun. But that works to our advantage. Go hunt with your .25. With Airguns being so obscure, a warden won’t know the difference unless you believe he is carrying calipers. If stopped, don’t brag about your toy and peak his interest. Or, because you bought an Impact, convert it to .22 for hunting. Maybe shrink it down with a 5 or 600mm barrel. You don’t need all that pipe for hunting squirrels anyway.

If one were to be a touch devious...put your .25's in a .22 tin. We know they look larger but....might get lucky.

 

[Vetmx]

Or look at it this way. The OP is out wondering around in the woods shooting squirrel with at least a $2,500 toy. In the 1 in 1,000 chance he runs into a hardcore warden and gets pinched, I think he can handle to $100 fine.

 

[trent.sears]

.177 or .22 are actually much better tree rat calibers IMHO... if you make shot placement and accuracy/precision your goal.

I have been doing it in my backyard with .177/10.5 grains @ ~750fps (less than 13fpe) for several years (from 10 to 50 yards and occasionally (3 times) at ~75-80 yards) with great terminal success (DRT) when my shots are placed well. (smile)

.25 is much more than is needed to take tree rats if you are accurate/precise with your shots. JMHO. (smile)

The issue here isn't what will efficiently get the job done. A Toyota Camry will get you to and from work just as well and on less gas than a sports car, the government still has no business telling you you can't drive a sports car as long as you follow the driving laws.

 

[450BM]

Or look at it this way. The OP is out wondering around in the woods shooting squirrel with at least a $2,500 toy. In the 1 in 1,000 chance he runs into a hardcore warden and gets pinched, I think he can handle to $100 fine.

This is true, I could handle a fine but why would they call my .25 caliber illegal but not the .177? When the Game Commission was discussing air rifles and decided to allow .177 through.22 caliber to be used for hunting, what was their rationale for making 22 caliber the maximum? They want to sell more licenses to make money for the department, why are they writing laws that prevent better calibers from being used.

Here is what is written under Arms & ammunition: 3) Air-guns for small game in calibers from .177 to 22, for woodchucks at least 22-caliber, that propel a single projectile, or bullet. BB ammunition is prohibited.

PA Game Commission answers to no one, I’ve dealt with them before in entirely different issues and they will absolutely cut their noses off to spite their face. Well, no, I guess they will just shove something up our butts because they can…

I know the real answer is to ask them why and get a discussion going to try and make them change the law, I’m just venting my frustrations here with folks that could be affected by laws like this…

 

[450BM]

I'm a slugger myself! I shoot nearly exclusively with FX Hybrid Slugs, and they perform wonderfully!

Just look at this expansion, even on a 66 yard passthrough on a groundhog!

And the 30 caliber wouldn’t be legal in Pennsylvania… That’s how stupid the law is!

 

[N2 Shooter]

And the 30 caliber wouldn’t be legal in Pennsylvania… That’s how stupid the law is!

That's crazy!

When I look at hunting laws from other states, I just don't understand why it has to be so difficult.

So glad I'm in Ohio!

 

[Vetmx]

Even I don’t think launching 30cal slugs into the air hunting squirrels is a good idea. Yes a .22lr decimates a .30 airgun but the guy can’t use or is prohibited by safety zones from using the .22lr when the .30 airgun guy is not. Half of my squirrel hunting is on gamelands. I use a .25 more than a .22. Would I use a .257 or 50cal Airforce Condor? Or a .357 Impact? No. There are laws or battles worth concerning yourself and efforts with. This is not one of them. I have two sorta friends who are wardens. They don’t even know I hunt with an airgun. Wear the appropriate orange, sign your license and don’t have a mag in your gun when you get to your vehicle. Those are the main things to worry about.

 

[Vetmx]

I guess it is if you’re concerned about it. I’m certainly not. If I get picked off with my .25, I’ll be hunting with my .22’s the next day. The .25 is not a game changer over the .22 anyway on squirrels. Just have to chose your projectile and speed a little more wisely with the .22 to close the gap.

 

[DesertSilver]

Soooo, it does look as the goberment is stepping in, where's sasquase ?

Running the goobermerment!

 

[DesertSilver]

This is true, I could handle a fine but why would they call my .25 caliber illegal but not the .177? When the Game Commission was discussing air rifles and decided to allow .177 through.22 caliber to be used for hunting, what was their rationale for making 22 caliber the maximum? They want to sell more licenses to make money for the department, why are they writing laws that prevent better calibers from being used.

Here is what is written under Arms & ammunition: 3) Air-guns for small game in calibers from .177 to 22, for woodchucks at least 22-caliber, that propel a single projectile, or bullet. BB ammunition is prohibited.

PA Game Commission answers to no one, I’ve dealt with them before in entirely different issues and they will absolutely cut their noses off to spite their face. Well, no, I guess they will just shove something up our butts because they can…

I know the real answer is to ask them why and get a discussion going to try and make them change the law, I’m just venting my frustrations here with folks that could be affected by laws like this…

Lazyness! They figure if a.22 RF is good enough for squirrels then.22 and under is fine not realizing that a.22 RF will travel a mile where I don't know of a PCP slug traveling that far. Just think how far a .25 cal center-fire would travel? It's basically as I've said lazyness!

 

[450BM]

I guess it is if you’re concerned about it. I’m certainly not. If I get picked off with my .25, I’ll be hunting with my .22’s the next day. The .25 is not a game changer over the .22 anyway on squirrels. Just have to chose your projectile and speed a little more wisely with the .22 to close the gap.

I only have .177 and .25 caliber air rifles so 22 is not an option. Sure, I could use my Marauder but considering my other gun options, I wouldn’t use .177 air rifle on squirrels. My best squirrel rifle is a CZ 452 in 17 M2 and I have a boatload of Eley ammo for it. So it’s not that the law is denying me from hunting squirrels, it’s the lack of logic in the law that has me irritated. Yeah, I know, trying to imply logic to a government agency is like herding cats…. lol!

 

[Vetmx]

Yes, definitely like herding cats. That’s why I don’t waste much brain power on it. The Commish is a self sustaining agency so as cool as that sounds and could be, without the life raft of tax payers dollars, they don’t like risk. The best part of squirrel season is almost over so go enjoy some time in the woods. Lots of time all winter to get worked up over that which you cannot change.

 

[450BM]

Yes, definitely like herding cats. That’s why I don’t waste much brain power on it. The Commish is a self sustaining agency so as cool as that sounds and could be, without the life raft of tax payers dollars, they don’t like risk. The best part of squirrel season is almost over so go enjoy some time in the woods. Lots of time all winter to get worked up over that which you cannot change.

Yeah, you’re right… Deer season is coming up and my son and I (he’s 13 hours away at college now) will spend lots of time shooting and getting ready for that. Still trying to find a cast bullet load that I’d be comfortable hunting with in 450BM, 350 Legend or 308… The air rifles have been much easier to find good shooting pellets and of course much easier to shoot in the backyard anytime I want. My gun range is 20 minutes from home.

 

[JimD]

I agree with the OP's assessment of a 25 PCP being a great squirrel gun and the lack of logic in the PA laws. I lived for 15 years in PA and hunted there but never with air guns. I live now in SC and we have the same regulation. I've shot 20 squirrels so far on my property with my 2 25s and none ran more than 15 feet. That is more than half my total head count. My little Prod has killed 15 and my much newer P35-177 has taken three so far. I was not happy with the Prod at it's stock tune, 2 ran off, but at 18 fpe, it has taken 11 without issue. I also have a P35-22 looking for it's chance to get a few. My Prod issues might also have been shot placement. I did not recover them so no way to know for sure. No running after impact with my 19 fpe 177 so far.

Trying to educate your local representatives would be a good thing to attempt but getting a change is unlikely. The only logic I can see is it might help keep people who are really trying to deer hunt with a 25 PCP from messing around and wounding game animals. Obviously an expert and careful shot could brain shoot a deer very dead with a high powered 25 PCP but I wouldn't use mine for any more than small game. Things do not always go as planned and I have other guns. As we all know, a 25 PCP is almost always going to be lower powered than a 22 lr so it is really a small game caliber. That is the approach I would take. But I haven't written my representatives. I just used the law as an excuse to get more PCPs (P35s in my case).

I think the 25 is a great small game PCP caliber because the shot count is good, the holes it makes are bigger for quicker death in our quarry, the ammo cost is still reasonable, and they are still quiet. I am still gathering data but my impression so far is that caliber differences are less than many suggest, however. I think if we place the shot into the heart/lung area or the head/neck and we have enough penetration, we can expect a clean kill regardless of caliber. I am guessing I might see more than 20% of the 177 and 22 body shots run but so far the count is too low to know. (10 of my 20 with 25s were body shots and 2 ran thus 20%). Both the 25s that ran were front of chest hits, however, that went all the way through the bodies but did not exit. So I will start to think I'm seeing a little difference if any of the 177 or 22s run when hit through a shoulder. But so far, none have.

Last point, there is another advantage of a P15 or P35, weight. The P15 is less than 4.5 lbs and the P35 is 5.2. Both guns are less than $500 so not much more than a caliber change kit for a FX. Accuracy of my 3 is plenty good enough for squirrel hunting with the 22 very nicely accurate. It's also nice to have more than 1 PCP to have more to mess around with and also to have a spare if there is a sudden O-ring issue or something.

 

[HogKiller]

Or look at it this way. The OP is out wondering around in the woods shooting squirrel with at least a $2,500 toy. In the 1 in 1,000 chance he runs into a hardcore warden and gets pinched, I think he can handle to $100 fine.

$2,500???? Did he get it on sale or something. I added up one of mine and just got out of the hospital getting a new stent, which btw cost less than my air guns.....barely. Kidding...sort of.

 

[Deleted 45061]

I live in Pennsylvania and have hunted here for 40+ years. Just got a new FX Impact .25 sniper and was thinking this would be a great squirrel rifle. I didn’t buy it for that but after shooting it, I know it would just about perfect. So, thought I’d check PA game laws to make sure we can hunt small game with air rifles now. We never used to be able to but now we can, as long as it’s .177 or 22 caliber! How freaking stupid is that? What am I missing? Pellets are too large and they don’t want those huge chunks of lead (25 grain) flying around the woods? I guess a 40 grain 22 cal slug or a 40 grain bullet from 22 rf would be better…

Somebody enlighten me please.

Yeah a bit antiquated. .25 cal and .30 destroy small game for me, so I typically prefer .22 anyway. That law stinks though if you can't afford multiple airguns. Hopefully the law will be updated!

 

[450BM]

FX inpact you can just change barrels easy use .25 on privet land and .22

$2,500???? Did he get it on sale or something. I added up one of mine and just got out of the hospital getting a new stent, which btw cost less than my air guns.....barely. Kidding...sort of.

Well, the gun was $2200 but bought a new scope for it so another $400… $30 for rings, $100 worth of pellets, the electric pump. But with all that, still the cheapest ”cost per shot” gun I own and I can shoot it in my back yard! Mine was a get well present to me. I had viral meningitis this summer which kicked the crap out of me and took almost my entire summer. I needed this. Maybe I’ll add a 22 barrel someday but really loving the 25 caliber right now.

 

[BackStop]

The issue here isn't what will efficiently get the job done. A Toyota Camry will get you to and from work just as well and on less gas than a sports car, the government still has no business telling you you can't drive a sports car as long as you follow the driving laws.

I wasn't even talking about what the DCNR regulations are. I was simply talking about being accurate/precise in shots and knowing where to place those shots. So, in my experience and IMHO, .177 and .22 are AMPLE calibers to take tree rats. If you think you need a higher caliber for small game/tree rats, then I posit that you simply don't want to take the time to be accurate/precise with YOUR shooting.

To each their own. I know where I stand on this issue and work VERY hard to be accurate/precise with my shots and know WHERE I need to place those accurate/precise shots for clean kills. (smile)

p.s.

No, I don't claim to be a perfect shot. I don't KNOW anyone who claims to be one either.

 

[BackStop]

I’ve read some of your old posts here and understand a little better now why you post the way you do. I’m done.

I’ve read some of your old posts here and understand a little better now why you post the way you do. I’m done.

Thanks for taking the time to read my older posts, but I don't think you really know me or why I post about accuracy/precision.

See my older 2021 posts shooting chipmunks. Here is a start.

I posted nearly all of my chipmunk kills for 2021 with pictures and a description of the shot(s). Including when I had to use a follow up shot for the kill.

Glad you are done... but I doubt it. LOL!