Sub 12 ft-lbs

[wyshadow]

I have a habit of not watching reviews on sub 12 ft-lb rifles because I feel they are completely different pcp's then the U.S. high power pcp versions. Once in a great while I'll sit through a .177 12 ft-lb review if the pellet gun's velocity is a little closer to our higher power versions. I wouldn't sit through a .22 18.13 grain video unless its a pcp with no reviews in a high power version, and .25 cal 25 grain I would never watch. It's hard for me to wrap my mind around a low powered pcp having the same trigger, sound, and cocking effort. Should I not think this way or do the sub 12 ft-lb pcp version the same? Is this also true for our fellow shooters across the pond but vise-versa?

 

[JimNM]

I hear you buddy. I can't fathom that my modestly tuned P-rod at 13 fpe is too powerful for the UK shooter without special permits. It takes a whole different approach to use the sub 12 fpe guns. Were I to shoot 10m, indoor targets it might be different for me.

 

[Corvid_hunter]

I like watching air rifle reviews and hunting videos of all kinds. There are some impressive shooters with the sub 12 .177cal rifles.

 

[wyshadow]

I like watching air rifle reviews and hunting videos of all kinds. There are some impressive shooters with the sub 12 .177cal rifles.

I agree with you there. My hats off to the sub 12 hunters. They are excellent shooters and I believe their lower power makes them better shooters. I could, and have, sat all day watching our UK brothers hunt. I'm talking more about reviews then hunting though

 

[Dairyboy]

Yeah it's hard watching a review on sub12 airguns being here in the US. What's confusing is AARs newer video on the Vulcan 3 700mm .22 sub 12fpe. I mean not necessarily his review but why would AGT make a sub 12fpe version of the 700mm barreled one. I understand the 500mm but not 700m. 

 

[elh0102]

Well, I'm not sure of everyone's perspective here. I just tuned down my 20 fpe .177 HW100, and now have it at 14 fpe, shooting the 10 g at 775 fps. This greatly increases shot count, and makes it darn near silent. 

I think we Americans tend to judge everything in terms of bigger is better. Well, I've found that's just not true, depending on application. 

 

[shambozzie]

I have guns ranging from 6 fpe to 200+ fpe. Can't recall the number of starlings, sparrows and tree rats sent to heven with 12 fpe . Yes they will make you a better marksman because you know shot placement is the only thing you have going. Dead is dead Some guys love carnage. Out to 45 yds very deadly.

 

 

[Lewis]

Oddly, I find myself more often migrating towards the lower powered versions. It's all about scale. A 6 FPE 10 meter gun is a serious challenge in the 35 yard range even in a 2-3 MPH shifting wind. A 12 FPE gun (especially a springer is a similar challenge at 50 yards, and shooting good groups with a 20 FPE gun past 50? You have my respect. I can always shoot powder guns or higher powered airguns at increased ranges (and I do), but the draw for me is the quiet, civilized shooting of a capable gun at modest ranges. I enjoy and welcome the challenge.

 

[TiredRooster]

I agree that watching reviews of sub 12 guns is kind of tedious to say the least. But watching those guys in the UK efficiently take critters with sub 12 Ft Lb rifles, especially springers, is awesome. To be honest, watching Vermin Hunters TV with Dave Thomas and Si Pittaway, is what really got me interested in springer air rifle hunting. It really motivated me to learn how to shoot springers well. And I don't shoot sub 12 springers........hats off to those Brits taking game with head shots at distances out to 50 plus yards. Very good marksmen.

 

[Dairyboy]

I do agree on using lower power rifles. I just bought a Vixen that's shooting at 22fpe and plan on tuning it down to 15fpe. My only other gun is my Taipan Veteran Shorty shooting 16gr at 880fps. Which is on the lower end anymore on where people want to shoot there .22s.

 

[jwrabbit123]

speaking of sub 12 fpe I just swapped a barrel and put a tiny plenum and set one of my to shoot a 7.9 gr .177 cal , OMG It felt totally awkward for me to shoot I sighted it at like 30 yards , the wind was going 12 to 16mph , 

All I can say is It was not easy for me , I am so used to shooting my pcp guns from 30 to 150fpe and most with slugs ,

I didnt look at any programs or tables just had fun trying to hit targets out to 109 yrds where my steel targets are , I missed 90 percent of shots lol Like I said I have never shot a 177 in 25 yrs and I never shot a sub 12 , I think last time when i was a kid I had a wooden crossman 760 pump , back then scopes were 3/4 inch

LOU

 

[BackStop]

Actually, I wish there was more attention to ~12fpe or less airguns in the USA.

What I do is pesting in my own backyard and the longest shots I can take (now) are at most usually 40 yards, with the occasional 45+ shots. So, ~12fpe is MORE than enough power for my needs when you consider pass through and the fact that any time I miss (if I did not make sure to have a good backstop) I might damage property not my own.

Seems this forum and most airgun forums in the USA are more focused on higher power airguns and that, in itself, worries me because eventually the government WILL start looking at airguns the same as firearms because they are just as powerful as many firearms.

I am not saying anything new, however, given the political climate these days, it is MUCH more likely to happen sooner than later.

JMHO

 

[qball]

I live in California suburbia, not within cities or counties that specifically prohibits airguns but I will not jeopardize my ability/privilege to shoot at home. In fact I think 12 FPE is downright reckless!  for my target practice I shoot 7 FPE or 7.9 grain pellet at 600FPS and shoot squirrels with 8 FPE or 10.4 grain hades at 600FPS. Zero issues dropping huge 2lb fox squirrels with headshots and the hades can punch right through the vitals at 8 FPE. My house sparrow and starling gun is my 1701P at factory 3fpe, gotten headshots on house sparrows at 35 yards! Even shot couple of rats at 34 yards with my challenger at factory 4.5 FPE. My longest shot was 48 yards on a big fox squirrel with 8fpe out of my 1720T, lights out with a headshot. 



not everyone need to be this careful but this is a fun challenge. I shoot prone to my trap at 34 yards and talk about difficult when wind gets pass 3mph. 

 

[cea1960]

I'm the opposite. I don't watch reviews of high powered airguns. I have no use for them therefore no interest. Sub 12fpe rifles peek my interest and subsequently their reviews.

 

[Corvid_hunter]

When I decide to get a .177cal somewhere down the road I'll likely look at an Air Arms S510. They have a good reputation and a 5 step power adjuster. Having adjustable power for the back yard would be a plus and it likely goes down to 5fpe or so.

 

[Tomygun1]

I really like this topic. Both the shooters and the arms they shoot and tune need to be perfect for the use chosen for. It seems to me that this discussion only prevails because of government controls in different countries that have placed limits. Clearly PCP’s and others have a wide range of capabilities and for many have been greatly restricted. It is unfortunate that many are limited, but as far as PCP accuracy is concerned velocity and foot pounds is not a limiting factor, and accuracy can actually increase with higher performance.



Tom

 

[qball]

It seems to me that this discussion only prevails because of government controls in different countries that have placed limits. Clearly PCP’s and others have a wide range of capabilities and for many have been greatly restricted. It is unfortunate that many are limited, but as far as PCP accuracy is concerned velocity and foot pounds is not a limiting factor, and accuracy can actually increase with higher performance.




Tom

having low power airgun when situation requires to take care of pests safely is simple common sense. I have no restriction here in the US and I don’t pull out my 70fpe cannon when a house sparrow or even a skunk shows up, I don’t want to hurt or kill my neighbors who only live so many yards away and I have a very large yard in CA suburban standard. Doing so will jeperdize not only other peoples safty but my own safty. When someone gets hurt or killed it’s a sure thing laws and restrictions will follow. Why do you think a lot of place band any projectiles period? Because someone F*ed it up for everyone. It has nothing to do with some conspiracy of government control, just go to some of the areas and check out the locals, you will also fully support banning spitballs. Just because many here have the luxury of wide opens spaces doesn’t mean everyone else have the same luxury. 



In fact I’ll be pissed as hell if my neighbor shoots something that could potentially endanger my kids’ safety. 

 

[Tomygun1]

qball,

It turns out that we agree, it’s just that we have a choice to tune our airguns for our purpose and others don’t. After safety comes accuracy and we are fortunate not to be restricted.

 

[harrymoreland]

Regards reviews, 12ftlbf to , less concerned about power level I am more concerned with the build quality, features, specs and then the reviewer, and wether ( or not ) I can stick their style of presentation.

On the guns themselves, horse's for courses.

Good luck.

 

[rigbymauser]

I my country the lawmakers passed a law in regards to caliber. All .177s are free for all and above needs a valid hunting licence. This was in 2013. There have never been an issue with bigbore airguns here…but the legislators passed a law because they “felt” like it. No power restrictions in .177cal. In regards to the british “12 ft/ibs” law. If I have lived in the UK I would still have bought a Daystate Revere for the money it cost, but I wouldn’t spend more money on just “12 ft/ibs”. 12 ft/ibs is fun enough for backyard plinking and small critters at close range. 
On the political side in regards to UK there is not one politician to be found that wants to make it more laws more liberal in regards to airguns.