Would you please share photos of cards you've shot a 100y BR match.
Not cherry picked groups but the actual precision on all the shots you did.
Thanks
Upvote 0
Tuning Sub half MOA air rifle
- Thread starter explorer
- Start date
Not cherry picked groups but the actual precision on all the shots you did.
Thanks
Here are some of my match results and 1 training group. I think the last foto is the most interesting, because you can see the dispersion of the 5 shot groups.
These groups are shot at 100 meters or 110 yards in match conditions with only a bipod in the front. The smallest matchgroup of the day , first foto, was from last Sunday. In training conditions i shot smaller groups. Second foto is one complete match.The Third foto was one group under training condition. The last foto is from our last match in 2022. It was in december 2022 in Katwijk with electronic shot count at 110 yards/100meters in cold weather conditions and as i wrote perhaps the most interesting match for watching the groups.
Grtz. Bert928GT
These groups are shot at 100 meters or 110 yards in match conditions with only a bipod in the front. The smallest matchgroup of the day , first foto, was from last Sunday. In training conditions i shot smaller groups. Second foto is one complete match.The Third foto was one group under training condition. The last foto is from our last match in 2022. It was in december 2022 in Katwijk with electronic shot count at 110 yards/100meters in cold weather conditions and as i wrote perhaps the most interesting match for watching the groups.
Grtz. Bert928GT
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Here are some of my match results and 1 training group. I think the last foto is the most interesting, because you can see the dispersion of the 5 shot groups.
These groups are shot at 100 meters or 110 yards in match conditions with only a bipod in the front. The smallest matchgroup of the day , first foto, was from last Sunday. In training conditions i shot smaller groups. Second foto is one complete match.The Third foto was one group under training condition. The last foto is from our last match in 2022. It was in december 2022 in Katwijk with electronic shot count at 110 yards/100meters in cold weather conditions and as i wrote perhaps the most interesting match for watching the groups.
Grtz. Bert928GT
There's no denying that you, those slugs, and the gun shoot great.
What velocity are they going?
Your post wouldn't be complete unless we see pics of your gun!
Upvote 0
The gun shoots the 41.5 grain RWS slugs at 1080 FPS which is the best velocity for this gun. This is the gun:
Grtz Bert
Grtz Bert
Upvote 0
Yes we only use a bipod in the front during the match. The barrel is a custom made .223 airgun barrel of 29 inch with a twist of 16 inch, made by Lothar walther.
Grtz. Bert
Grtz. Bert
Upvote 0
Bert you sparked my interest in this Sinner. Tell me a little more like is it hard to cock? As airguns got harder most of us have gone to side lever is why I ask. A lot of direct pull bolt guns can be quite difficult. Do you know anything about the valve? Balanced maybe to cock easier? Does it have a pin probe that pushes the RWS slug in place?
Upvote 0
Cocking is really smooth, the hammerspring is very long, the longest i ever saw in a airgun. The valve is a standard simple valve, no tricks at all. Yes the gun has a pin probe to push the slug in place. You can simply change the barrel by loosing the 3 bolts and change the caliber. The available calibers are .223, .257, .308, .357. The most accurate however is the .223. The .223 barrel is in fact a custom made .22lr barrel, made for drummencustomguns by lothar walther.
On 25 june this year i even beated all the .22lr firearms at 100 meters / 110 yards match in Andel (netherlands) and i won the airgun match.
Grtz Bert
On 25 june this year i even beated all the .22lr firearms at 100 meters / 110 yards match in Andel (netherlands) and i won the airgun match.
Grtz Bert
Upvote 0
The Sinner seems like a nice gun. I enjoy quality. Being accurate, single shot and of simple design with the minimum parts and orings is the only way to go for me.
Upvote 0
This discussion of MOA or sub MOA is silly bc even if a rifle or airgun has the ability under perfect conditions to shoot MOA or sub....can the SHOOTER???? and Can the scope?
Shooting an air rifle is eaiser than shooting a centerfire rifle....but there are .28 Nosler or 7mm PRC rifles that shoot .5 MOA but how many shooters can get behind the rifle and accomplish it??
A rifle having the ability to shoot MOA....and a shooter getting behind that rifle shooting MOA....are 2 different things
Shooting an air rifle is eaiser than shooting a centerfire rifle....but there are .28 Nosler or 7mm PRC rifles that shoot .5 MOA but how many shooters can get behind the rifle and accomplish it??
A rifle having the ability to shoot MOA....and a shooter getting behind that rifle shooting MOA....are 2 different things
Upvote 0
I would promptly concede that it is impossible to control all the variables perfectly but we can go a long way toward controlling what most would consider to be the two biggest ones…the shooter and the environment. The former with a mechanical rest, the latter with an indoor range. Granted, optimizing either one for ever more consistent and repeatable results is surely an endless rabbit hole but I don’t think there’s any question they remove a substantial portion of the variability.
The perpetual and intractable problem is the ammo. Not such a problem in the context of a test done at some particular time and place, but it’s just not feasible to lock this variable over any useful group of tests done over time and in different places with different guns.
I don’t see the scope as being a meaningful contributor to dispersion unless the turrets are being adjusted between shots.
The perpetual and intractable problem is the ammo. Not such a problem in the context of a test done at some particular time and place, but it’s just not feasible to lock this variable over any useful group of tests done over time and in different places with different guns.
I don’t see the scope as being a meaningful contributor to dispersion unless the turrets are being adjusted between shots.
Upvote 0
What should be understood is that no shooter is capable of increasing the performance of the gun….although a good shooter will be able to take better advantage of a guns capability.
I’ll take a 1/4 moa gun over a 1 moa gun any day…even if shooting offhand….and especially when what I have to hit is 1 moa or smaller.
Mike
I’ll take a 1/4 moa gun over a 1 moa gun any day…even if shooting offhand….and especially when what I have to hit is 1 moa or smaller.
Mike
Upvote 0
What is the Bore/Groove/Twist data on this barrel used if possible .? & using rws 41.5 ?
Joe
Upvote 0
To me this is all that matters in precision shooting . The gun has to be able to out shoot me...or its not sticking around here. It does no good trying for .75-.50 consistency if the gun isn't capable of it. Complete waste of time. The PB world of precision will go to the ends of the earth for an edge in consistancy of hyper accuracy & it should be no different with airguns doing precision shooting. Thomasair seems to have gone were PB customs comp guns have went which is good for us & hard, expensive work. Barrels & ammo are the biggest hill to climb IMO in the airgun game, triggers should be a given IMO, but the entire package as with all precision shooting devices must be there too. Then a well practiced great shooter can win or meet there personal goals.
A poop gun ain't goona do it.
Joe
Upvote 0
Confidence in your equipment and yourself goes a long way. Knowing you have the equipment to do it leaves the burden on you.
Time and money spent =The equation.
Time and money spent =The equation.
Upvote 0
The twist of the barrel is 16 inch and i use the RWS 41.5 grain slug. This slug is the same slug as the slug for .22lr amo from RWS. I bought the gun in january 2018 and have trained with it a lot. The behavior in cold and damp weather differs a lot from that in warm and dry weather and I now know quite well how to adapt to that. I am convinced that I would never have gotten this far with any other weapon.
Grtz Bert
Grtz Bert
Upvote 0
Im ashamed, i had no time to come back this long. Sorry for that.
Anyways, im pretty disappointed with comments. At the beginning it was clarified that we are talking about the accuracy of the RIFLE and not the shooter. The topic is about a sub 1/2 MOA rifle not shooting sub 1/2MOA groups and was also clarified we are not strictly talking about sub12. And now lot of you was discussing and reacting about the wind, BC because of wind drift and shooters capabilities. Guys, please next time take the time and read the whole text even 3 or 5 times again and again if you dont understand it. But think its enought to read it only once but carefully.
On the other hand, big thank you to everybody who tooked the time and read the post and tried to help the discussion with clever and not offtopic comments.
I decided to not really continue this thread in this shape, as i think it would be exhausting to keep it on the right track. I know the forum is to be transparent and help each other, also the people who gonna read this in the future but i would preffer to stay/get to touch with meaningful commenters in DM.
Thank you, and have a nice day all
Anyways, im pretty disappointed with comments. At the beginning it was clarified that we are talking about the accuracy of the RIFLE and not the shooter. The topic is about a sub 1/2 MOA rifle not shooting sub 1/2MOA groups and was also clarified we are not strictly talking about sub12. And now lot of you was discussing and reacting about the wind, BC because of wind drift and shooters capabilities. Guys, please next time take the time and read the whole text even 3 or 5 times again and again if you dont understand it. But think its enought to read it only once but carefully.
On the other hand, big thank you to everybody who tooked the time and read the post and tried to help the discussion with clever and not offtopic comments.
I decided to not really continue this thread in this shape, as i think it would be exhausting to keep it on the right track. I know the forum is to be transparent and help each other, also the people who gonna read this in the future but i would preffer to stay/get to touch with meaningful commenters in DM.
Thank you, and have a nice day all
Upvote 0