Suppressors

[Gabpan]

I am fairly certain that suppressor are not legal without a tax stamp and approval.

The part that confuses people is that they think that an air gun suppressor is not in the jurisdiction of the Alphabet org. However if you look at what they are saying is that they have jurisdiction over suppressors period. They go on to say that many “air gun only” suppressors share the same design characteristics as a suppressor made for a firearm.

This really does confuse me because so many people particularly in air gun competitions use suppressors. There are so many you tube videos as well if people using them.

Some things I know

Construction in terms of durability does not matter. Or in other words even if it’s for one shot.

The Alphabet org has specifically addressed air gun and paint gun in relation to the suppressors available.

In conclusion if we are purchasing a device for the purpose of reducing or altering the sound of our air guns that makes it a suppressor. if that effect is achieved by a device resembling a firearm arm suppressor as in many of the popular designs out there then it is now an illegal unregistered suppressor. Doesn’t matter what you intend on putting it on or what it is currently on.

Am I wrong? I’d love to be but I don’t think so. I don’t want to be in blissful denial. Or to make some asine alternative word to describe a suppressor.

 

[scubajeeper]

They are called moderators for a reason.

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

Yes, you are wrong.

 

[rcs9250]

I would find it very hard to believe that the three letter organization is not aware that the air gun world has had moderators or whatever we choose to call them for a long long time. As big as that organization is there may even be enthusiasts among them that have checked into there legality.

 

[Revoman]

Although it was about 6 years ago, I called the three letter entity about moderators and spoke to a field representative at length about air rifles with moderators.
His statement at that time was (paraphrased): "Yes, we are aware of air rifles using "moderators" and in essence look the other way as many manufacturers have them already attached to the rifle. I wouldn't worry much about it, at least for now. Perhaps at some point in the future we will make a more definite decision on them."
So, until lately I believed that we were good to go. It seems that there may be some caution when owning one now a day though.
Perhaps another call to the three letter entity is in order.
Mike

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

One of those dont ask dont tell situations, best not even spoken about, and definitely not directly to the man. If you can find any specific restrictions that you feel apply, then do as your judgment tells you.

 

[Lewis]

The definition is:

The term “Firearm Silencer” or “Firearm Muffler” means any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for the use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, any part intended only for ...

The key words are firearm and intended. Airguns are specifically not firearms and some effort would need to be made to show intent. Without these distinctions, anyone who owns a pillow and has duct tape in their home would be in trouble.

The definition for a firearm is:
18 U.S.C. Section 921(a)(3), to include “(A) any weapon (including a starter gun), which will, or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon….”

Based on Section 921(a)(3), air guns, because they use compressed air and not an explosive to expel a projectile, do not constitute firearms under Federal law.

This is not legal advice and we all know of those who have been persecuted, but in doing so the offending agency is making an interpretation not consistent with the definition prescribed. It does not mean they can't continue to do so, or that the definition cannot be changed to include our devices. But strictly speaking as written the definition should not include air rifle usage.

 

[airgunmike56]

Back before there was a AGN , There were no FX guns , A long time ago there was a small band of air gunners , We called the thing at the end of the barrel a LDC. And if you did call it a silencer you were quickly taught the language of the air gunner, Now its silencer , Its full auto, Power of a 22 LR, able to kill big game... Big brother is watching , We got to big to police our own.
Mike

 

[Gabpan]

you can call it by any name it doesn’t change what it is… I can just see that being spoken by some agency of authority or a prosecutor.

I’m not saying this is the top of their list but it’s a concern. The reason I bring all this up is because I recently consider purchasing something for an air rifle and it seems like in the past it was fine as long as it didn’t go on a firearm. But now it seems like the Alphabet org is saying that they regulate silencers period. A silencer reduces the rapport of a rifle. So again, what I’m saying here is even though the Alphabet org may not have jurisdiction over their arms they do have jurisdiction over silencers. And what meets the criteria of a silencer.

Honestly, calling them by anything else doesn’t make it any more or less legal? It is what it is.

As for me, although TKO has a brilliant design, that really does work very well. It’s going to be a hard pass for me. I really wish that wasn’t the case but for me I don’t think it’ll work.

Ironically, this is caused me to go out and purchase a 22LR suppressor which I will use for my 22 rifles and handgun. I’ve been wanting one for a while. I’ve just been hesitant to pay out all that money just to make my 22 quieter . I Also will research to see if there’s some type of adapter that I can use to put it on the end of my air gun.

Many many other people run suppressors on air rifles, factory an aftermarket, some even come with threaded barrels. There’s a specific pitch even. Everybody’s situation is different. I owns several firearms and I don’t want there to be any issues with them trying to say that I’m going to put it on one of my firearms. Which now would be the stupidest argument in the history of arguments because I just went out and purchased a 22 LR suppressor, so why would I need something from TKO on in my firearm? But to avoid all the issue altogether, I’m just going to pass.

 

[Gabpan]

This little snippets probably been quoted before, but this is the thing that made me ultimately change my mind. This is directly from the Alphabet org.

The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

Numerous paintball and airgun silencers tested by Alphabet org’s Firearms Technology Branch have been determined to be firearm silencers by nature of their design and function. Because silencers are NFA weapons, an individual wishing to manufacture or transfer such a silencer must receive prior approval from Alphabet org and pay the required tax.

[26 U.S.C. 5845; 27 CFR 479.11]

 

[Doc C.]

Grandpa said once" Son, that big ole hound dog never hurt anyone. But, if you don't stop kicking it, it is going to wake
right up and take a big ole bite right out of your _ss!"
Just saying.

Doc

 

[boscoebrea]

You say you are fairly certain, You are seeing you are wrong yet you try to be right, what are you getting out of this?
Why not use what you deem is right and leave it at that, we air gunners do not have a problem with "moderators ".
The 3 letter people seem to have no problem with it ;Yet you seem to have a problem where no problem exists...who is the problem
Again the firearm problem vs. air guns....ther must be a difference no??

 

[MikeVV]

Geeze, you REALLY...think that calling something by a different name is going to keep big brother in the dark..?
You are seriously kidding yourselves if you do.

I personally like muffler, but suppressor, silencer, damper, ldc, or any other name anyone wishes to call that weight hanging off the end of the barrel (shroud), is just a name that most ALL...adults (and probably most of the younger set), that are anywhere close to firearms, or air powered guns..."fully"...understands the meaning of !

I say, call it what you like, and quit whining about it.

Mike

 

[Motorhead]

This subject is beyond beat to death ... OP's rant is in my eye just a Trolling for reaction & attention.
Let the subject lie ... do what makes you happy & safe. Others will do there own thing .. Nuff said.

 

[Gabpan]

I really wasn’t trying to convince anyone but myself honestly. I am not trying to sway anyone’s opinion.
I can make a ton of arguments for both sides but the main problem is that the agency enforcing the law has the ultimate say in if something is restricted or illegal. They define it and thier dogs enforce it.
My main argument or point is they say suppressors require the stamp they say that they determine what is and isn’t a suppressor. With a history of being less than transparent I don’t want to get involved with that discussion with them or have the means to fight it in court so for my personal situation I don’t think it’s a good idea.
As far as gun laws in general, don’t get me started. It’s very simple law-abiding citizens follow laws criminals don’t care if the vertical for grip on a pistol is legal. I don’t understand why politicians don’t understand this.
Personally, as far as suppressors go, the whole legislation is unwarranted at best. Very few criminals are worried about the report of the fire arms during the act of committing a crime. Gun laws should be based on statistics not on reactionary fanaticism or what Hollywood has taught us about firearms. But what do you expect when the commander in chief hasn’t even served a day in the military

I digress I am envious of those that have suppressors on their guns. They work really well.