HW/Weihrauch Surprisingly Disappointing & Confused

[KRich]

For Christmas I finally broke down and bought a Competition Electronics ProChrono DLX. I wanted to see exactly where my 3 Weihrauch's stood. performance wise.
The oldest of the bunch, the HW95 (with a new Vortek PG4 Tune kit) perfomed as expected with an average 765fps shooting H&N Baracuda Match 10.65g pellets.
The HW90, after pumping a tad more air into it, is shooting 905fps average using the same pellets.

This is where Im totally confused and a bit peeved. My HW80 with very little pellets ran throught it (probably less than 250), is averaging a mere 425fps using the same 10.65g H&N's. This rifle is supposed to be a "Magnum" springer or so I thought, yet my Benji & Sheridan's blow it out of the water as far as power goes.

Any idea why Im getting such lackluster performance out of this HW80? Its NEVER been stored cocked, thats for sure. Do I need to break down and buy a Vortek kit for this one as well ? The Vortek kits are smooth as silk and I love how it tamed the HW95, but I read somewhere that power may suffer if I treid putting the kit in the HW80. It seems at this point I have nothing to loose. Geeze.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

On a old R1 (hw80) but maybe you can gleen some fps results to baseline to ?

Airgun Information - Velocity & Energy of the Beeman R1 Air Rifle

 

[KRich]

Burnt or ruptured piston seal.

I guess its possible, but seems unlikley due to very low round count ran through it. I just ordered Vortek's latest tune kit for it anyway.. Screw it. I cant sleep well at night knowing its crippled not to mention I just put a brand new Arkin scope on it..

 

[KRich]

On a old R1 (hw80) but maybe you can gleen some fps results to baseline to ?

Airgun Information - Velocity & Energy of the Beeman R1 Air Rifle

Nice. Thanx !!

 

[marflow 777]

this an old post but it is worth reading and i to use ULTIMOX 226 BUT READ IT
it talks about seal lip burning
https://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread.php?663309-new-Weihrauch-seal-test-and-some-thoughts
another post from this year and a few pictures

https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/hw95-r9-piston-seal.1283604/

 

[Orv]

A chrony and a rangefinder are the two most disappointing tools an airgunner can have... you'll find that your 1000fps airgun shooting 1 inch groups at 50 yards is actually shooting 700fps and 1 inch groups at 20 yards!

That said, I would verify with several pellets and conditions with lighting. A lot of tune kits might drop factory power levels, but of course make for a smoother shooting experience so it's worth it...but at this point, I would think anything might be an improvement over 425fps.

ROB: short and sweet: a chronograph is probably the most important accessory tool an airgunner can have. Orv.

 

[Orv]

Thanx everyone for the suggestions. I'm going to tear it down and inspect the Piston & Seal to see if anything has gone south while it was sitting idle for the past couple of years. I guess anything is possible, and casnt rule anyting out...

A teardown/inspection/reassembly/proper lube/re-test seems like the best place to start.

I forgot to mention, all 3 rifles are .177 Cal.

Do the tissue test first. Orv

 

[A.G.R]

Do the tissue test first. Orv

I agree ,it fast and simple .. all roads lead to one or the other.

 

[DesertSilver]

One other thing to consider when comparing fps. Difference's in altitude will affect the velocity that a springer will give. The higher the altitude the slower the velocity.

 

[willy]

AGR is right" take it apart,put new seal in ,turn spring around lube litley should get 750 FPS. with5.5mm 14.5 grain pellet.The low would be 720.-140 'asl.

 

[KRich]

AGR is right" take it apart,put new seal in ,turn spring around lube litley should get 750 FPS. with5.5mm 14.5 grain pellet.The low would be 720.-140 'asl.

Roger that.

 

[KRich]

this an old post but it is worth reading and i to use ULTIMOX 226 BUT READ IT
it talks about seal lip burning
https://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread.php?663309-new-Weihrauch-seal-test-and-some-thoughts
another post from this year and a few pictures

https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/hw95-r9-piston-seal.1283604/

Thats a good read. Interesting. I ordered this T-Bar clamp from Amazon (delivering this afternoon) .
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DAPPVFA?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1
I'll be tearing into the HW80 today to see whats up. and I'll snap a few pics of the seal. As stated earlier, I went ahead and ordered the PG4 tune kit from Vortek along with a new Vac Seal 30 and breech seal but that ETA is Tuesday. I'll post Chrony results after that install in case anyone is interested.

Very interesting read indeed. Thanx.

 

[AirNGasman]

The first 6-8 HW springers I bought experienced mainspring fatigue/set or fracture within the first 2000 rounds; a couple within a couple hundred rounds. Hopefully they've improved their springs in the last 40 years, since I just bought 2 new HW springers.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

How old is that 80? Reason is if it's got the old or new cocking shoe ..
Should of asked before you ordered stuff Incase you could of added the new style shoe to have just in case you find the old scraping ..



Vortec did have them in stock ...

 

[KRich]

Torn down, this is what I found.

Cocking Shoe is new type

Aside from what appears to be some minor dieseling, I dont see any major issues? I would expect to see more of a "flair" at the top of the seal thats for sure. As stated previously, this rifle has relatively low pellet count ran throught it. That seal is telling me the opposite. That little "dimple" on the side in the one photo looks rather odd. If I had to guess, this rifle is around 8-9 yrs old. Stayed in the closet most of the time as I enjoyed shooting the HW95 much more. I'll hose everyhting down with brake cleaner, do some deburring of all the sharp edges, get that piston sleeve out and lube what I can until the new Vortek kit arrives......

I really appreciate everyones input. Knowledge is power.

 

[jccams]

That seal is definitely toast.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

That seals pretty rough.. it needs to be gone.. ( opinion). Being that factory installed seal maybe kinda par for the course somewhat..

Like the transfer port marks. Shows could be poor sealing pressure / not enough pressir to cushion the end of travel / like slamming .

Definitely scared up maybe from install and looks kinda dry or factory trash in the grease from your next to last picture above. Just looks like a poor fitted factory job .. ( why guys that buy a new hw/r fix them new out of the box)

Regardless a new seal fitted and lubed right is a must for sure ....

I guess now is get that kit in and see how ya stand ...

 

[Bear-of-Grayling]

Looks like the seal was hanging up on the install. Someone pushed down hard with a punch to get it to clear some roughness on the entry or the receiver slot. Damaged the seal in the process. Not sure it looks bad enough to cause that much loss in power. Probably between the damage and the dried out lubrication it did. Check the interior for burrs or roughness. You could do the same with the new seal.

 

[KRich]

Yea, Im disappointed in what I found. If this rifle had a few thousand rounds through it, it would be another story...but Geeze. Unfortunately i didnt have a Chrony back then so I really had no idea how bad it was, or its fast progression to bad. Its bad.

 

[tnt68]

I made a lot of practice and mistakes with my HW50S with the original Weihrauch full power spring. Due to an improper excess of lubing with oil based grease, I've got dieseling and the collapse of the spring. I agree with the deburr of the sharp edges into the cilinder and I found that's enough to lube the seal with two drops of silicone oil, after a brake cleaner wash, and grease just a little bit the portion of the spring that seats into the piston.
I prefer to service more often but avoiding dieseling.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

Be sure to use unchlorinated cleaner.

I use permatex copper antisieze as my lube.. moly - krytox used them but ??? ... Idk.

I'd just use what comes in the kit i guess vortex includes the moly and or tar stuff in there kits ? Never usef there stuff .. I keep threatening to try there piston seal one day ..lol