¡¡¡TAIPAN(s)!!!

[mtnGhost]

I spent enough time with the Veteran to realize that it's not for me. I'll probably keep the Mutant, but the standard Veteran just isn't my cup of tea. My Lelya wins the spot for the compact 22 cal hunter in my backpack

Interesting, as I feel kind of the same. Not just regarding the Veteran, but I guess bullpups in general. I don't have a need for a compact rifle, and my longer rifles are easier to shoot. That said, I really admire the Taipan design and build quality, the great trigger, and its accuracy. So I expect I'll keep it, just add it to the stack of things I like, but for which I have absolutely no use.

Not trying to flame anyone per se nor spark some trigger debate, but I have to say that my biggest turn off that I have with these Taipans are the triggers. I can't count how many times people have said the they have "great triggers" or "the best triggers" ever, when really I think what people are inferring is "lightest trigger". To me, the Taipan design is overly complicated with a hell of a lot of moving parts - and thus a hell of a lot of potential points if failure. I'm also turned off tremendously by the forward trigger and bracket assembly. I do not like this setup at all.

The "best trigger" in my very subjective and minimalist view is the one with the least amount if moving parts - that gets the job done reliably. Sure, I can can understand how trigger snobs want their perfect stage 1 & 2, but apart from my Leshiy, I haven't owned a PCP that did not provide adjustability for both stages LOL, so color me unimpressed I guess

Sorry for that rant, but I did just drop nearly $3K on two Taipans and I call it like I see it!

 

[zx10wall]

You can adjust first stage weight, second stage weight, first stage travel, second stage travel, sear tension and engagement, linkage tension and over-travel. You can do all these adjustments and tailor the trigger to exactly how you prefer. You can get an extremely light trigger that is safe and passes bump testing. Even after adjusting all, the safety will still work. Many a PCPs aren’t capable of these adjustments. Are they all needed? Not for most but they are there if you like. 

I appreciate the Taipan trigger and don’t understand your rant but we all can’t be alike. 

 

[elh0102]

The "best trigger" in my very subjective and minimalist view is the one with the least amount if moving parts - that gets the job done reliably. Sure, I can can understand how trigger snobs want their perfect stage 1 & 2, but apart from my Leshiy, I haven't owned a PCP that did not provide adjustability for both stages LOL, so color me unimpressed I guess

Sorry for that rant, but I did just drop nearly $3K on two Taipans and I call it like I see it!

Not trying to flame anyone per se nor spark some trigger debate, but I have to say that my biggest turn off that I have with these Taipans are the triggers. I can't count how many times people have said the they have "great triggers" or "the best triggers" ever, when really I think what people are inferring is "lightest trigger". To me, the Taipan design is overly complicated with a hell of a lot of moving parts - and thus a hell of a lot of potential points if failure. I'm also turned off tremendously by the forward trigger and bracket assembly. I do not like this setup at all.

Well, there are a lot of air rifles out there with really crappy triggers, and most of them have only a few parts, and are reliable. The Veteran trigger is a two-stage trigger in which each stage is independently adjustable, and provides a high quality release over a wide range of pressure settings. Such a trigger requires a geometry that cannot be provided without a certain degree of complexity. But that doesn't make them unreliable. The Anschutz and Steyr match triggers are good examples. The Taipan trigger is as complicated as a hammer compared to an Anschutz 5018. I respect your demand for quality and performance. When it comes to the Veteran trigger, I have found it totally reliable, as well as providing both the adjustments and release quality of a true match grade trigger. As I view it, complexity is only a problem when it leads to failure, and a virtue when it provides a high level of performance. 

 

[ChuckHunter]

I understand not wanting to start the great debate...But I have to ask have you had that side plate off and really checked out the amount of precision involved in that trigger system? Its nothing short of remarkable and can be adjusted to any situation or preference in both target and hunting!

The only failure points I can see is if the user isn't capable or competent in making those adjustments....

Anyway there just opinions right? No harm no foul....lol JMHO!

James from Michigan 

 

[P_Bachman]

I'd draw a comparison to the very compact linkage of your finest Remi 700 trigger assemblies like Trigger-Tech. The Mutant offers more adjustability and is no more complex.

You're not going to find a simple match-grade trigger on any gun anywhere. More adjustability means more complexity- a fundamental rule of engineering. It just so happens that the Taipan combines adjustability with durability- two things that rarely coexist in one device.

 

[mtnGhost]

When I was out shooting last Sunday, I was zeroing in my standard and shorty. I shot ~4 mags in the Vet and 2 in the Mutant. I refilled the Vet and reloaded the magazines. I cocked the lever back and inserted the magazine, closed the catch, and as I started closing the lever the rifle goes off. I looked at the trigger to see if it was hung up - and it wasn't. I worked the safety back and forth, wondering the trigger housing was "off" somehow (even though everything was perfectly fine up until that point), and the safety felt fine. No binding, and the trigger locked in place. I left the safety on, cocked the lever back, saw the mag cycle, closed the lever and it went off again. I took the stock off to examine the trigger, trigger rod, and tested the play and it seemed fine. The stock went on a little less snug then I had it, and it persisted to discharge without the operating the trigger. 

Moving on, I inserted a freshly loaded mag of 18gr pellets in the Mutant as I'm trying to shake off my anger with the Vet. I closed the bolt and the rifle accidentally discharged exactly like the Veteran did. How the F does this happen to me twice???? I think to myself. I checked the trigger, it seems ok. I checked the safety and it was binding up a little. I cycled one more pellet and closed the lever, and sure enough it fired on its own. Keep in mind - I did not mess with this Mutant's configuration, beyond removing the stock at home.

I contacted the seller and he said this never happened to him, and I can believe him. So what caused both of these Taipans to accidentally discharge? I ran through everything in my mind that I had done to both rifles to find a common denominator. The only commonality was removing their stocks, filling them with air, loading and shooting them both. My suspicions were:

1. Mounting bolts were snugged a hair too far, but I couldn't influence any changes in behavior snugging them differently 
2. HST was too far in (although, I didn't touch the Mutant's adjuster at all, it arrived with the HST pretty far inward; my Vet's HST was 1/4 turn from max, exactly
3. The change in temperature and elevation may have played some role in the seer not engaging fully, but I'm not convinced of this
   [/LIST=1]
   
   Both rifles operated normally when I returned home that evening. I readjusted the trigger rid and trigger housing position on both of them yesterday. The Mutant's housing definitely seemed to be too far back. The Vet seemed fine, but nonetheless - I spent a great deal of time getting them both aligned perfectly. The seers both looked fine, firing components were ok, and there was no visible damage to any of the components on either rifle. Both of them cock back and fully engage the seer, and the trigger breaks just as I would expect them to.
   
   I was in mechanical engineering before I got into tech engineering. I fully understand the challenges in building trigger systems for bullpups, and it's clear to me now that the Taipans are built around adjustable triggers as their primary feature. I personally care less about adjusting a trigger beyond stage 1/2 predictability, beyond that I'm not seeing value with the Veteran that aligns with my personal taste so they're both getting sold once I can ensure they're safely operating. I probably should have kept my thoughts to myself on the overrated trigger system, but that is how I feel about them and I am not impressed. I'm also not a fan of safeties that do not put a physical barrier in front of the hammers (my Leshiy gets an exemption on this though).
   
   I'm just fortunate that I'm experienced enough to point my muzzle in safe directions subconsciously. Be safe out there and use a little extra caution when closing the cocking levers on these Taipans.

 

[Kdog]

When I first got my Vet the sear adjustment was very light and was doing the same thing as yours. I cocked the rifle and as i was moving the cocking lever forward it went off. After having this happen a few times when I got home I adjusted the sear screw and it has not done it since I made the adjustment. I personally love the Vet trigger although it's much more sophisticated than most rifles. 

 

[elh0102]

mtnGhost, if you find a PCP air rifle safety that blocks the hammer, let us know. 

Your trigger issue is clearly a simple sear engagement adjustment. Given your shooting and engineering background, I assume you understand the critical geometry involved in a multiple lever trigger design, and, that the sear engagement is critical to a very small tolerance. Any disassembly/reassembly of the rifle, temperature changes, lubrication, etc. can influence the sear engagement setting. You mention examining the trigger, so why not make the simple sear engagement adjustment that will correct your problem? 

 

[mtnGhost]

mtnGhost, if you find a PCP air rifle safety that blocks the hammer, let us know. 

Your trigger issue is clearly a simple sear engagement adjustment. Given your shooting and engineering background, I assume you understand the critical geometry involved in a multiple lever trigger design, and, that the sear engagement is critical to a very small tolerance. Any disassembly/reassembly of the rifle, temperature changes, lubrication, etc. can influence the sear engagement setting. You mention examining the trigger, so why not make the simple sear engagement adjustment that will correct your problem?

Clever wordplay. That's not the first time that I've seen you drop a condescending insult to someone on this forum buddy. 

I'll stick a fork in this thread and hope it gets locked on this note - the positioning of the trigger housing was not correct on the Mutant that was sold to me. The safety was binding up when this incident occurred - I'm sure that anyone that has tinkered with a Taipan knows what it means when the safety doesn't flick on or off. The safety was operating correctly up until I refilled the air after the first shot string.

No idea what the root cause was with the veteran's engagement failures. The Taipan manual states these rifles should not be operated under 5C, and it was 4C that afternoon at 2700' ASL - I was technically operating the rifle outside of the manufacturer's guidelines. The veteran's sear set screw is secured with an aggressive amount thread locker - probably to discourage customers from adjusting where it is set, but I count at least 5 unique points of adjustments that are required after something as simple as removing the barrel to clean out the protective bore coating from the factory. 

I'm not knocking anyone that loves Taipans. That's your business, but I'm not wasting any more of my time with them.

 

[elh0102]

Clever wordplay. That's not the first time that I've seen you drop a condescending insult to someone on this forum buddy.

Not meant to be condescending, my apology, and have a great holiday season!

 

[Pickzilla]

mtnGhost, if you find a PCP air rifle safety that blocks the hammer, let us know. 

I believe the R5M and Lelya both have a direct hammer block safety. Another reason I love me some Edguns. 

 

[zx10wall]

mtnGhost, if you find a PCP air rifle safety that blocks the hammer, let us know. 

Your trigger issue is clearly a simple sear engagement adjustment. Given your shooting and engineering background, I assume you understand the critical geometry involved in a multiple lever trigger design, and, that the sear engagement is critical to a very small tolerance. Any disassembly/reassembly of the rifle, temperature changes, lubrication, etc. can influence the sear engagement setting. You mention examining the trigger, so why not make the simple sear engagement adjustment that will correct your problem?

Clever wordplay. That's not the first time that I've seen you drop a condescending insult to someone on this forum buddy. 

I'll stick a fork in this thread and hope it gets locked on this note - the positioning of the trigger housing was not correct on the Mutant that was sold to me. The safety was binding up when this incident occurred - I'm sure that anyone that has tinkered with a Taipan knows what it means when the safety doesn't flick on or off. The safety was operating correctly up until I refilled the air after the first shot string.

No idea what the root cause was with the veteran's engagement failures. The Taipan manual states these rifles should not be operated under 5C, and it was 4C that afternoon at 2700' ASL - I was technically operating the rifle outside of the manufacturer's guidelines. The veteran's sear set screw is secured with an aggressive amount thread locker - probably to discourage customers from adjusting where it is set, but I count at least 5 unique points of adjustments that are required after something as simple as removing the barrel to clean out the protective bore coating from the factory. 

I'm not knocking anyone that loves Taipans. That's your business, but I'm not wasting any more of my time with them.

I see no reason to lock the thread. I didn’t find the condescending insult. Seems elh0102 was just stating the obvious. On all the Taipans I’ve handled, I didn’t find the thread locking agent as a deterrent. Adjustments could still be done without heat or risk of stripping the allen heads. Most manufacturers put some thread locking agent on critical adjustment as such.

mtnGhost, sorry your Taipan Mutant & Veteran experience wasn’t a good one. I will look for the .22 Mutant to hit the classifieds. 

 

[elh0102]

I believe the R5M and Lelya both have a direct hammer block safety. Another reason I love me some Edguns.

That's good to know, I had no idea that any air rifle safeties actually blocked the hammer. 

 

[mtnGhost]

mtnGhost, if you find a PCP air rifle safety that blocks the hammer, let us know. 

I believe the R5M and Lelya both have a direct hammer block safety. Another reason I love me some Edguns.

Indeed. When I put the safety on my R5 and Lelya, the hammer isn't going anywhere.

Clever wordplay. That's not the first time that I've seen you drop a condescending insult to someone on this forum buddy.

Not meant to be condescending, my apology, and have a great holiday season!

i appreciate the apology. The relatively complex trigger system in the Taipan is easy to visualize with the removable plate and it's not rocket science figure out. 

When I made the decision to share what happened last Sunday, I half expected negative responses. The fact is these Taipans aren't any different than any other guns that are configured with ultralight triggers. There are repercussions involved, and my two Taipans' trigger systems have hypersensitivity to the elements / environment when their triggers aren't setup more conservatively. The evidence that I have points me to this conclusion. Therefore, I'm planning to reconfigure the second stages to be much heavier than they are prior to listing them for sale.

 

[elh0102]

When I made the decision to share what happened last Sunday, I half expected negative responses. The fact is these Taipans aren't any different than any other guns that are configured with ultralight triggers. There are repercussions involved, and my two Taipans' trigger systems have hypersensitivity to the elements / environment when their triggers aren't setup more conservatively. The evidence that I have points me to this conclusion. Therefore, I'm planning to reconfigure the second stages to be much heavier than they are prior to listing them for sale.

Good idea. Your posts made me curious about the trigger settings, so I played with them a bit. It didn't take much decrease in either sear engagement or pull weights to get it extremely sensitive, to the point of being very difficult to control in anything short of full bench rest support. Since it is not a true two stage trigger that separates a second stage lever from the sear until the first stage stop, it is a good idea to be conservative with the sear engagement. I have mine set now with a relatively generous engagement, and the stage weights set for a let off of around 8 ounces or so, and there is no noticeable creep. It had been at 5-6 ounces, and I had no issues with it, but I don't want to bang it around the woods at that setting either. I've bounced it around enough to be comfortable with the present setting for hunting, although I will increase the weight a little for hunting. Since it has an anti-double feed design, I just chamber a pellet and then decock the rifle, so the safety doesn't come into play. I have no air rifles with which I totally trust the safeties. 

 

[lbc_PSI]

When I was out shooting last Sunday, I was zeroing in my standard and shorty. I shot ~4 mags in the Vet and 2 in the Mutant. I refilled the Vet and reloaded the magazines. I cocked the lever back and inserted the magazine, closed the catch, and as I started closing the lever the rifle goes off.

No idea what the root cause was with the veteran's engagement failures. The Taipan manual states these rifles should not be operated under 5C, and it was 4C that afternoon at 2700' ASL – I was technically operating the rifle outside of the manufacturer's guidelines.

Interesting that both airguns seemed to function OK for a certain amount of time in the cold, then had issues. Kind of points to a design flaw..IDK? I guess when you think about it, it makes sense. The guns went from your warm house to a warm car, then to a bench(?) out in ~39F degrees (4C). The receiver is aluminum, the set screws are one type of steel, the linkage and sears are another type of hardened steel; all having different expansion/contraction ratios. Another issue could be condensation. When warm metal cools, it sometimes get condensation buildup. The combination of contraction and condensation could make for some interesting interactions.

Seems kind of coincidental the the manufacturer set the min temp at 5C and you experienced issues at 4C.

The online pic of the Veteran mechanism show the linkage pretty well. Not so much how the cocking lever linkage interacts or moves relative to the trigger mechanism. Could be the contraction of the receiver pulled part of the cocking linkage close enough to the trigger linkage to “bump” the sear? Speculation. Seems like the clearances would have to extremely tight for that to occur.

I’d be really interested to hear what, if anything you discover about your Taipans.

I believe the R5M and Lelya both have a direct hammer block safety. Another reason I love me some Edguns.

Actually, the Edguns can have issues when you set the triggers really light and then try to set the safety. A friend and I were tuning and adjusting our R5s and we had the pant-loading experience of a R5 .30 set for 80fpe discharge in his shop. Fortunately not loaded…but the loudness of that volume of compressed air escaping in a closed shop is pretty exciting. It did blow some chit off his work bench though.

Long story short, our triggers are now set to ~2.5lbs and neither of us use the safety when hunting. He decocks when there’s a round in chamber and I just don’t load until I intend to shoot. That said, at the 2.5lb weight we’ve never had setting the safety cause a discharge. 

This isn't meant as a dig on the Edguns..love mine and will probably never sell..but every brand is going to have its own idiosyncrasies..hopefully we find them and let others know about them and remain safe in the process.

Merry Christmas all!

 

[P_Bachman]

mtnGhost- thank you for sharing your experience. 

Every time I see the side-plate removed from over the trigger assembly on a Mutant, I think about my intended use for a PCP: hunting and knock-about pesting, that screams hunting trigger, not match-grade sensitivity trigger. I love the Mutant/Veteran. I just love the Lelya more.

 

[pmg]

I was out squirrel hunting yesterday in the hills and hollers and it was 26*F. I’ve been out when it was cooler than that for 3-4 hours and I’ve never had an issue with my trigger yet. Mine is the Ukrainian Veteran model, in .22, that didn’t come with a manual so I’ve not heard about the temperature thing until this thread. Mine has not been out of the stock and it is just the way it was the day I received it from R&L except for Papy Yosh accessories and a bunch of 18AAs down the barrel. I’m gonna keep using it for what I bought for and IF I have an issue I’ll deal with it then and only then. It was amazing out of the box and remains that way today for ME. Thanks for the heads up though. In full disclosure, I originally was going to get an Edgun R5M but I got my Veteran long and a 100cf bottle for just about the same money. They’ve since jacked the price up and quit using the CZ barrels. Again thanks for the heads up highlighting a possible issue with mine down the road.

 

[elh0102]

I was out squirrel hunting yesterday in the hills and hollers and it was 26*F. I’ve been out when it was cooler than that for 3-4 hours and I’ve never had an issue with my trigger yet.

And you probably will not. In my experience with triggers in general (match quality and adjustable), the only time an extreme temperature change affects a trigger in this manner is very rifle specific. If the sear engagement is right on the ragged edge of let off, I have seen some rifles lose their ability to cock, or, sometimes suffer a slam fire in colder weather. If that happens, the adjustment was probably very aggressive, in an attempt to reduce the trigger let off weight to a point below its design parameter. My Veteran arrived with a let off weight of about 6 ounces. I like light triggers, but I thought that was a little below the intent of this design. I increased the sear engagement a little, without increasing spring tension, and the let off is now about 8 ounces, and still with no perceptible creep. IMO, that confirmed my assumption that the adjustment was a bit below the point of consistent reliability and safety. In a good trigger, you shouldn't have to go to such a large overlap on sear engagement that you feel creep in order to have safety, but you don't want it right on the sharp edge of let off either. 

 

[mtnGhost]

Just wanted to add that the o-ring list posted earlier in this thread isn't right. I haven't seen any Viton o-rings, and the breech o-ring for the 22 cal is 5.28x1.78mm not 5x1.5 (the latter gets blown out of the closed breech at higher pressures).

I'm not even sure what the correct list is. Hopefully this will save someone time and $ though.