Tuning taipan standard .177 10.3's speed

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@johnnypdx - it's a matter of point of view. :) Yes - looking down at the reg from what you call the top of it ( the fat end - lol ) then yes - CCW. Looking at it pulled apart as Ernest had it in his video, essentially from the 'skinny end' of it - then CW. Depends on how one looks at it - point of view. :)
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Thanks Man. I watched the same video and could NOT determine the direction to turn it.

All point of view :)


 
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Pretty sure the regulators are the same as well .... Tho in the case of the .177 the PLENUM spacer was indeed different !! It is Very thick walled REDUCING plenum volume quite a lot.

In my situation i went the other way replacing it with a thin wall spacer gaining volume. In this way when running at what appears a higher set point than some are .. I'm taking small sips from a bigger plenum rather than large swallows off a smaller one.



Scott S
 
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Pretty sure the regulators are the same as well .... Tho in the case of the .177 the PLENUM spacer was indeed different !! It is Very thick walled REDUCING plenum volume quite a lot.

In my situation i went the other way replacing it with a thin wall spacer gaining volume. In this way when running at what appears a higher set point than some are .. I'm taking small sips from a bigger plenum rather than large swallows off a smaller one.



Scott S
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That .177 Taipan of yours has received quite a bit of Special Attention and I don't really understand how you arrived at smaller "sips". If you want to explain that would be cool and if not I understand.
 
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Johnny, Motorhead is controlling his dwell with higher reg pressure in the plenum. It’s a balancing act when you don’t want to mess with different poppet return springs or have the ability to control the poppet travel. It can be very rewarding and efficient if you have the knowledge to nail it. It also pays to have the machinist skills to alter your hammer weight when you go this route.
 
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Johnny, Motorhead is controlling his dwell with higher reg pressure in the plenum. It’s a balancing act when you don’t want to mess with different poppet return springs or have the ability to control the poppet travel. It can be very rewarding and efficient if you have the knowledge to nail it. It also pays to have the machinist skills to alter your hammer weight when you go this route.
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Ok Thanks Man... I'll leave that to the MotorHeads of the world.
 
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And Johnny, if your wheels are spinning about your .25 and little sips, leave your gun alone. I can see why Motorhead took this approach on his .177. The larger caliber Taipans are very close to perfect for the average Joe. With a lot of guns, it seems like the focus is on .22 and .25. The poor little .177 is like it almost an afterthought so there is room for improvement.
 
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And Johnny, if your wheels are spinning about your .25 and little sips, leave your gun alone. I can see why Motorhead took this approach on his .177. The larger caliber Taipans are very close to perfect for the average Joe. With a lot of guns, it seems like the focus is on .22 and .25. The poor little .177 is like it almost an afterthought so there is room for improvement.
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Thanks. My Taipan .25 is shooting quite well and dropping a LOT of starling and ground squirrel. Couldn't ask for more except maybe a compact in .22
 
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Pretty sure the regulators are the same as well .... Tho in the case of the .177 the PLENUM spacer was indeed different !! It is Very thick walled REDUCING plenum volume quite a lot.

In my situation i went the other way replacing it with a thin wall spacer gaining volume. In this way when running at what appears a higher set point than some are .. I'm taking small sips from a bigger plenum rather than large swallows off a smaller one.



Scott S
Click to expand...

That .177 Taipan of yours has received quite a bit of Special Attention and I don't really understand how you arrived at smaller "sips". If you want to explain that would be cool and if not I understand.
Click to expand...

In a PCP rifle the valve is a simple cork over an exit hole ( Poppet over throat ) Because this cork has area exposed to pressure, this pressure is also holding it closed. Greater the pressure harder the poppet is pressed over the throat opening. Basic view

Next being PRESSURE IS ENERGY, so lower pressure has less contained energy than high pressure does .....

Now we use this compressed airs energy to launch our pellets / slugs. SO THE STATEMENT of Small sips is that of using Higher pressure that contains more energy by volume than a lower pressure does. To get the same TOTAL ENERGY you must release More Air of lower pressure than you need too with Higher pressure. aka "Large swallows"



Granted there is a VERY LARGE rabbit hole we tuners go down in figuring out all the twists and turns we navigate and share. For many i'm sure it is TMI !! ( too much information )

But for those who can the rewards can be great and the hobby of air gunning can take on a second appeal ... that of tweaking & tuning for the sheer enjoyment and satisfaction of it.



Scott S
 
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Regarding the pellet speed. Getting 5 shots without fliers on a bench is a challenge for me, and probably most. The taipan can be a challenge to shoot on a bench as it is quiet short. And when using a rear bag, if I am not applying the exact same pressure on the bag, or shoulder, the gun seems to drop down a litle on the bag when firing, getting a group climbing vertical. Yesterday I did turn down out the hammer, and started shooting from 800 fps. When I reached 810-820, the gun was accurate, and I was able to easier get a thight group on 25m without fliers. I ended up leaving it at 830. Hard to say if it is more accurate at 870-890fps, maybe it is if attched in a vise, but for me it seems to be easier to shoot on my current speed. When I said earlier it was as accurate as my impact, it probably is, but because it is shorter, and the action has more weight toward the back, it seems for me to be more hold sensitive, so lowering the speed some seems to make it easier to shoot. Probably does not matter if you are a hunter, and stretch the power upwards, as in most cases it will be more accurate than you are able to shoot:)
 
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Hey all . . . ( 7:28pm on a cool and blustery / windy Sunday ) So I'm just in from out in the back yard shooting this little taipan again - first and only time I've shot it today. I went to one of my farm permissions and spent some time there earlier today and then just hung out for a couple of hours around the house waiting / hoping that the wind would settle down - and maybe temperature would go up 10 degrees or so. Negative on both fronts. :(

Readers digest: It *is* shooting pretty good, actually from 20-50 yards in my back yard, even in windy conditions, surprisingly good. I've got it averaging 887 fps over 10 shots. It seems to be getting pretty decent 'fuel mileage' too - I just ran 60 shots through it from a full 250bar fill down to just a smidge over 150bar - this is based on the gauge on the front of the tube.

I'm still not keen on the regulator in this thing though. I can nearly strip it ( the gun ) and get it put back together as fast as I can my old .177 m-rod. Interpret that as you will. ( shaking head . . . lol ) Externally adjustable regulators are truly bliss . . . I've got the OEM reg nearly bottomed out to what is, I guess, the lowest it'll go - I can still go a little lower - but for real - not much.

A question for those of you who are more knowledgeable on tuning: If the reg is turned way down then I shouldn't be able to still get 1000+ fps speeds out of the gun when cranking up the hammer spring - right??

I've been turning the reg down ( at least three times now - see above re: getting good at stripping this gun ) and then after re-assembly intentionally throttling up the HS when shooting over the chrony. My math sucks but according to mr google though 95% of 930 = 883.5. I've been trying to dial the reg to the proverbial "knee" ( I think thats what some of you guys call it? ) - ie; crank hs up and see where it tops out - then back off to 95-97% of whatever that max speed was. I'm thinking if I can get it to top out 930-940 then, in theory, I should have a decent tune??

This thing ( the little .177 taipan ) is HOT. I'm still easily getting over 1000 fps after spinning up the HS - and again - the reg is very nearly as low as I can get it. Back to the top of this post - 887 average BUT thats including it still throwing in the negative 30 to 40 speed shots. ie; 881, 883, 889, 901, 854, 887, 879, 880, 865, 883. <--- just random numbers I whipped off the top of my head for this post but - thats basically what its still doing - those two at 854 and 865 - skews what the average should be and obviously there is a bit more of a spread than I'd like. {sigh}

Put a lighter hammer spring in it? Do some sort of m-rod'ish "bstaley tune"? ( don't know if even possible with this one . . )

My intent was to go out and just shoot it down ( so as not to totally waste the air in it ) and strip it again and essentially bottom out the reg - but after shooting 60 rounds though it at a mix of distances and some fairly small targets - some only dime sized - . . . . it *is* shooting pretty darned good.

I'm all ears guys and thanks for the help and tips that you've provided so far.
 
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You are getting 60 shots from 250bar down to 150bar, OK, then what happens?S

Show the geniuses here (not me) the shot string for the 60 shots, and more, so the reg setting can be determined.

stack in a taipanVL.25 looks like this... ) () () () () () () () ( ... seven pair and total washers = 16

They are tiny and hard to tell which side is concave or convex
 
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Regarding the pellet speed. Getting 5 shots without fliers on a bench is a challenge for me, and probably most. The taipan can be a challenge to shoot on a bench as it is quiet short. And when using a rear bag, if I am not applying the exact same pressure on the bag, or shoulder, the gun seems to drop down a litle on the bag when firing, getting a group climbing vertical. Yesterday I did turn down out the hammer, and started shooting from 800 fps. When I reached 810-820, the gun was accurate, and I was able to easier get a thight group on 25m without fliers. I ended up leaving it at 830. Hard to say if it is more accurate at 870-890fps, maybe it is if attched in a vise, but for me it seems to be easier to shoot on my current speed. When I said earlier it was as accurate as my impact, it probably is, but because it is shorter, and the action has more weight toward the back, it seems for me to be more hold sensitive, so lowering the speed some seems to make it easier to shoot. Probably does not matter if you are a hunter, and stretch the power upwards, as in most cases it will be more accurate than you are able to shoot:)
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I shoot my Vet Long .25 a lot from the bench and made a drop-down butt stock to fit me better, that helps tremendously and I get great consistent groups.

ANY shoulder input is hard to control so I limit that and instead anchor the gun with the pistol grip... downward pressure. That's just me.
 
Upvote 0
Pretty sure the regulators are the same as well .... Tho in the case of the .177 the PLENUM spacer was indeed different !! It is Very thick walled REDUCING plenum volume quite a lot.

In my situation i went the other way replacing it with a thin wall spacer gaining volume. In this way when running at what appears a higher set point than some are .. I'm taking small sips from a bigger plenum rather than large swallows off a smaller one.



Scott S
Click to expand...

That .177 Taipan of yours has received quite a bit of Special Attention and I don't really understand how you arrived at smaller "sips". If you want to explain that would be cool and if not I understand.
Click to expand...

In a PCP rifle the valve is a simple cork over an exit hole ( Poppet over throat ) Because this cork has area exposed to pressure, this pressure is also holding it closed. Greater the pressure harder the poppet is pressed over the throat opening. Basic view

Next being PRESSURE IS ENERGY, so lower pressure has less contained energy than high pressure does .....

Now we use this compressed airs energy to launch our pellets / slugs. SO THE STATEMENT of Small sips is that of using Higher pressure that contains more energy by volume than a lower pressure does. To get the same TOTAL ENERGY you must release More Air of lower pressure than you need too with Higher pressure. aka "Large swallows"



Granted there is a VERY LARGE rabbit hole we tuners go down in figuring out all the twists and turns we navigate and share. For many i'm sure it is TMI !! ( too much information )

But for those who can the rewards can be great and the hobby of air gunning can take on a second appeal ... that of tweaking & tuning for the sheer enjoyment and satisfaction of it.



Scott S
Click to expand...

Thank You Scott. Digesting the explanation at the moment. Hope there's not a quiz.
 
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( just into work . . . ) @vetmx - oh . . . yeah. <grin> I'll do that - run it down until its off reg. I stopped after 60 shots yesterday in the back yard - was actually getting kind of bored shooting at the same old targets back there ( plus Molly the dog was getting antsy with me - she wanted dinner . . . ) So yeah - I'll shoot it again this evening when I get home and definitely run it right down until it starts 'doing something' - descending in speed like my m-rod does or spikes. I'll run 50 or so shots through it target shooting again and then start running over a chrony to see where it starts to change. I'll post again and let 'ya'll know.

@johnnypdx - if @motorhead decided to quiz us - I'm thinking we'd probably get shot down like poorly prepared candidates going before a thesis board. lol!!

Yeah -- trying to tune / stick with / use the OEM reg with this one has me airgun 'nerding out' in that I (now) know how to strip and re-build the regulator too - including the belleville washers and how they stack. Rabbit hole . . . ( lol!! )
 
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( just into work . . . ) @vetmx - oh . . . yeah. <grin> I'll do that - run it down until its off reg. I stopped after 60 shots yesterday in the back yard - was actually getting kind of bored shooting at the same old targets back there ( plus Molly the dog was getting antsy with me - she wanted dinner . . . ) So yeah - I'll shoot it again this evening when I get home and definitely run it right down until it starts 'doing something' - descending in speed like my m-rod does or spikes. I'll run 50 or so shots through it target shooting again and then start running over a chrony to see where it starts to change. I'll post again and let 'ya'll know.

@johnnypdx - if @motorhead decided to quiz us - I'm thinking we'd probably get shot down like poorly prepared candidates going before a thesis board. lol!!

Yeah -- trying to tune / stick with / use the OEM reg with this one has me airgun 'nerding out' in that I (now) know how to strip and re-build the regulator too - including the belleville washers and how they stack. Rabbit hole . . . ( lol!! )
Click to expand...

I polished the washers and the ES dropped from 25ish to sub 10. I think you saw that thread. Easy job and yes I have the take apart and re-assemble down to under 30 minutes.

Looking forward to see the numbers and outcome!
 
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@johhnypdx - how specifically do you polish the washers? I just pulled them, soaked 'em in degreaser and cleaned everything good. I cleaned the shaft that they live on too with a little bit of green scotchbrite and then wiped, cleaned everything clean. I reapplied a little bit of silicone lube, re-paired the washers and reassembled. 
 
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@johhnypdx - how specifically do you polish the washers? I just pulled them, soaked 'em in degreaser and cleaned everything good. I cleaned the shaft that they live on too with a little bit of green scotchbrite and then wiped, cleaned everything clean. I reapplied a little bit of silicone lube, re-paired the washers and reassembled.
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I used Turtle Wax Heavy Duty Cleaner / rubbing compound on a piece of marble. Flat surface, liquidy paste / slurry, change the slurry a few times. Push them down flat with not much force and work the concave side.

For the inside hole I used buffing compound, or maybe the same slurry can't remember, that came with my dremel and GENTLY smoothed the holes. Obviously a thorough hot water washing.

No material shaping just smoothing. Just go easy on it. The Turtle wax is used on paint so obviously the grit number is HIGH.
 
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