Airforce Talon SS - leaking valve - need info on rebuild

[RWL]

I bought the Talon SS new circa 2006 and this is from before spin-loc bottles. I haven't used it in quite awhile and now the bottle won't hold air. The leak appears to be around the threads of the brass insert. I have looked on this site for instructions on how to replace the seals and what o rings to use but didn't find what I'm looking for. I found one flat black rubbery seal between the valve body and the bottle and that looks OK - or at least I think it was holding air. I'm not spotting the seal between the brass insert and the valve body. And I'm guessing that those are the only two needed for the valve itself. What seals / o-rings are needed and where do I get them? Are they something I could just pick up at the local hardware store? Are there more than just the two seals for the valve? Photos below.

Valve before removal

Valve core removed

View of the seat where the core sits. I don't see the seal for this part and nobody's been inside the valve and removed anything. This is what it looks like when I opened it to see if I could spot the problem. Technically I could have sent it back to AirForce, but now having opened it they would probably consider that as having voided the warranty although I don't know if seals were covered under that.

 

[SpindleB]

I bought an SS .22 of the same vintage that had the same problem. If I remember there was an oring on the brass part that had dried into plastic.

But I've since put the stock bottle and valve in the spares box. I have an Acecare 1.1L fat bottle, Trajectron high flow valve and a Huben Power Cricket Max-ATH regulator on the air side. In the barrel I have Trajectron 90g hammer and heavy spring. If I cranked it all up, 3000psi reg, 10 on the power wheel. I got over 90J of energy, 1086 FPS with JSB 25.4gr pellets

 

[Berserkeley Mike]

I think your warranty might have expired long ago. That said, give Airforce a call. They are proud of their guns and will help you if you are polite. They might tell you the size of o-ring if not send you one.
But to answer your question, neighborhood hardware stores tupically carry buna o-rings. Take the parts there and find a ring that fits to the right of those threads of the brass valve, tight under that widest part. It should also fit into the silvery part that the brass valve screws into, and feel squished when the brass part is tightened. That will hold air. A little silicon[e] grease or oil will also help.

 

[RWL]

That said, give Airforce a call. They are proud of their guns and will help you if you are polite.

Thanks for the responses from both of you.
Before I had posted here I had inquired by email or on their web form [I forget how I initiated the contact since that was last week] and asked about what might be causing the valve leak and also what it would cost to upgrade to the spin loc system they currently use. They never did answer my question regarding the air leak in the current valve, but did answer the part about the conversion to spin loc - about $200. A bit too proud price-wise for me. I emailed them back to ask if I could save on labor charges if I just bought the parts from them but never got a response. Calling might be the way to go. I looked back at the warranty again. O rings are not covered and the gotcha is that "Repairs may only be made by the factory or an authorized service station. This lifetime warranty becomes invalid for any gun that is disassembled or modified in any way not specifically authorized by the factory." Like you said though, a polite phone call may produce better results.

 

[SpindleB]

Thanks for the responses from both of you.
Before I had posted here I had inquired by email or on their web form [I forget how I initiated the contact since that was last week] and asked about what might be causing the valve leak and also what it would cost to upgrade to the spin loc system they currently use. They never did answer my question regarding the air leak in the current valve, but did answer the part about the conversion to spin loc - about $200. A bit too proud price-wise for me. I emailed them back to ask if I could save on labor charges if I just bought the parts from them but never got a response. Calling might be the way to go. I looked back at the warranty again. O rings are not covered and the gotcha is that "Repairs may only be made by the factory or an authorized service station. This lifetime warranty becomes invalid for any gun that is disassembled or modified in any way not specifically authorized by the factory." Like you said though, a polite phone call may produce better results.

Trajectron has the Spin-Loc conversion kit

Airforce Gunpower Spin Loc Conversion Kit

Airforce Gunpower Spin Loc Conversion Kit - Spin-Loc Conversion Kit are the answer for those seeking an upgrade from the older versions of Airforce Condor / Talon / Talon SS / Talon P or Gunpower XS, SSS, Shadow, Stealth, Storm, Hellcat line of Airguns.

trajectron.com

They are in India but they ship DHL and I get parts from them in 4-5 days.

There is a video on installing the kit on YouTube. Watch first. You may decide to not upgrade.

 

[SpindleB]

Trajectron has the Spin-Loc conversion kit

Airforce Gunpower Spin Loc Conversion Kit

Airforce Gunpower Spin Loc Conversion Kit - Spin-Loc Conversion Kit are the answer for those seeking an upgrade from the older versions of Airforce Condor / Talon / Talon SS / Talon P or Gunpower XS, SSS, Shadow, Stealth, Storm, Hellcat line of Airguns.

trajectron.com

They are in India but they ship DHL and I get parts from them in 4-5 days.

There is a video on installing the kit on YouTube. Watch first. You may decide to not upgrade.

There are a lot of upgrade parts on Trajectron.

Highly recommended:
High flow valve
Heavy spring
90g hammer

Add in a Huben Power Cricket Max-ATH and cranked up:
1086FPS
90J
Shooting .22 JSB 25.4gr pellets

 

[TnCnDn]

Thanks for the responses from both of you.
Before I had posted here I had inquired by email or on their web form [I forget how I initiated the contact since that was last week] and asked about what might be causing the valve leak and also what it would cost to upgrade to the spin loc system they currently use. They never did answer my question regarding the air leak in the current valve, but did answer the part about the conversion to spin loc - about $200. A bit too proud price-wise for me. I emailed them back to ask if I could save on labor charges if I just bought the parts from them but never got a response. Calling might be the way to go. I looked back at the warranty again. O rings are not covered and the gotcha is that "Repairs may only be made by the factory or an authorized service station. This lifetime warranty becomes invalid for any gun that is disassembled or modified in any way not specifically authorized by the factory." Like you said though, a polite phone call may produce better results.

For $200, might as well get the Pinty.

 

[RWL]

My plan is to get the current valve working correctly first. The next step will be buying a GX-CS2 compressor. I'm tired of hand pumping. That inhibits my use of the pcp rifle. The compressors all use a Foster fitting and I found a fill adapter with 7/8-14 [m22x1.75] screw threads on one end and a male foster fitting on the other at AliExpress. After searching for days on how to rebuild the valve I finally found some posts elsewhere that I found helpful and which I'll repost here so that there's a record of what to do.

In regard to the seal under the brass valve body: "Remove the hard plastic ring and replace it with an #014 o-ring"

" I just replaced this oring a couple months back and no problems. I went to the local hardware store and bought Lasco brand #24 comes w/ 2, but dimensions are 33/64-ID 5/8-OD 1/16 thickness."

"I dug around the shelves in the shop, and found a 1/2 x 5/8 x 1/16 (#014) o-ring. Bottle is currently holding air, but I'll watch it, to be sure."
Five days later this poster reported that the gun hadn't lost any air.

Here's a diagram showing the seals and apparently the official part numbers - I don't know if they're AirForce part numbers or another vendor's.

 

[rwsmike]

If your original owner and you register the talon then it has life warranty. I own two condor ss and I have them both registered for life warranty.

 

[RWL]

I just got off the phone with AirForce and ordered two seals. They have updated their SKU numbers and the numbers above were AirForce numbers.

The seal for the brass valve core, formerly GP10848 is now ANC 000848 and is 95 cents
The seal for the valve body to the bottle, formerly GP 10132 is now ANC 000132 and is also 95 cents.
Shipping was $4.00 and will come in an envelope. He wasn't sure of the material for those two seals, but he said that they're not something that normally could be sourced at a local hardware store.

 

[RWL]

If your original owner and you register the talon then it has life warranty. I own two condor ss and I have them both registered for life warranty.

I am the original owner, but the warranty excludes O Rings and seals. Oh, well, it was only a little over $5 for OEM parts shipped.

 

[rwsmike]

I sent them a leaking tank and they fixed it zero issues.

 

[RWL]

I sent them a leaking tank and they fixed it zero issues.

I had a tank leak one year after I bought the Talon SS and AirForce did the repair (whatever it was) for free / under warranty, but I had the expense of shipping. I'm not sure they'd replace the seals for free on a 19 year old product since they're considered wear items. I didn't pursue it because shipping the tank would have cost more than the seals and I have the tools to do the replacement - just made the pin spanner for the dimpled brass valve body yesterday.

 

[RWL]

Out of curiosity I went to the hardware store and bought an O ring. It's 5/8" outside diameter and 1/16" thick. 1/2" inside diameter.
I only had enough ambition to pump the 500 ml bottle to 100 bar. I checked it and so far no leaks.

The O ring is not as thick as the original seal nor is it as stiff. The seal is square or squarish in cross section. The nominal dimensions of the original seal are 16mm OD and 2 mm thickness. My gut tells me the O ring won't last as long as a seal, but O rings can be obtained locally for 63 cents. AirForce's price of 95 cents for an OEM seal is pretty comparable and reasonable.

 

[SpindleB]

5/8 = 0.625 or 16mm given the original was under pressure it was probably 0.625 originally.

1/16 is 0.0625 or 1.6mm.

 

[TnCnDn]

I would like to get on board here. I have had a Spin-Loc Talon for 10yrs. or so in .25 12in. barrel. Put a bunch of cool stuff on it ie Maddog stock, R&L dust collecters, TT drop down and Wok trigger guard. Oh and .22 barrel. Got pushed aside and forgotten. Then one day I thought I need to get to know this air rifle(don't know jack about it). So I get it out and it has leaked to empty. I purchase o-ring kit from Tony longer than I remember. Last time I saw the little baggy of maybe 5 o-rings was mid December. I am going through the amassed collection shooting, cleaning, etc. Now the Talon is next in line and I can't find the o-rings. So if I order the top hats from Air Force do I need to order o-rings also. Is there a read like ALL THINGS TALON for instance?

 

[SpindleB]

I would like to get on board here. I have had a Spin-Loc Talon for 10yrs. or so in .25 12in. barrel. Put a bunch of cool stuff on it ie Maddog stock, R&L dust collecters, TT drop down and Wok trigger guard. Oh and .22 barrel. Got pushed aside and forgotten. Then one day I thought I need to get to know this air rifle(don't know jack about it). So I get it out and it has leaked to empty. I purchase o-ring kit from Tony longer than I remember. Last time I saw the little baggy of maybe 5 o-rings was mid December. I am going through the amassed collection shooting, cleaning, etc. Now the Talon is next in line and I can't find the o-rings. So if I order the top hats from Air Force do I need to order o-rings also. Is there a read like ALL THINGS TALON for instance?

I go buy several of the giant o'ring kits with various diameter and thickness on AliExpress and then never worry about the specific manufacturer’s overpriced "kit".

Given the variety of my guns it just makes sense to have lots of options. Especially when I start adding things like regulators

But I also buy guns at auction and they ALWAYS have dried out flat leaky o'rings. Several of my guns the manufacturer no longer exists.

 

[TnCnDn]

I have a tray of orings, never gave it a thought. I will need to make socket for the brass part. Talon tunes used to have agood blog. Should have paid more attention.

 

[SpindleB]

I have a tray of orings, never gave it a thought. I will need to make socket for the brass part. Talon tunes used to have agood blog. Should have paid more attention.

I bought a set of pin pliers. You can use snap ring pliers too

 

[Nkcaudill]

I would contact Air Force. I had a Talon as that was an unknown year to me that was leaking. I contacted Air Force and they sent me a return authorization and I sent the bottle and valve to them and they returned it fully rebuilt at no cost. All I paid for was the shipping to get it down there.