Daystate THE DAYSTATE PROGRAMMER-LET'S TALK ABOUT (PROPERLY) PROGRAMMING THE REDWOLF

curious what type / brand inline regulator did you use and was it a difficult install that also required program modification? I shot with a Guy in Boerne TX who had an inline regulator on his RW. Great shooter too!
I have no inline reg on the gun. I only have one coming off the fill bottle to control the output for tuning purposes. So for example, if I am trying to find the right pulse length for 250 bar I would set the reg for that. Then I might go down to 220 bar to find the PL for that etc.
 
Hi Stephan,
It sounds like same version as my Heliboard.
When I received my heliboard P1 was shooting JSB 10.34 at 990 fps. and already at P4 The JSB Knockout slugs was shooting way to fast.
You can have the values to enter in the Heliboard from Jack. The preprogrammed Heliboard that Soren Drost received for his RedWolf GP .177 is well graduated over the 12 programs. His Max. power level P12 is good for 20 and 22 gr. Zan slugs and P1 starts so you can shoot 10 gr pellets.
My programs is just custom calibrated to the pellets / slugs that i shoot.
If your Heliboard is one of the newer versions - then it has integrated Auto interpolation so you do not need to test speed at all of the 20 pressure levels.
I can do the same when test shooting with my Heliboard. But i need a computer with Excel to calculate the values in between - and then enter these values in the heliboard manually.

You need like for your 13.43 to test fire and find values for like pressure values: 160, 190, 220 and 250 bar Then you can either via the spreadsheet you received with the heliboard or with your newer heliboard do an auto calculation to fill in the values between these pressures.

I will try to read out the values from Sorens HeliBoard - next time I see him when I have them on paper - I will share the 12 programs values with you...

Best regards

You, Claus, are a gentleman, and Soren too if he shares ;-)
It never ceases to amaze me how great this forum is to share knowledge.

I did not receive a spreadsheet so I am guessing you are correct that I have the interpretative version. I'll have to see if Jack sent instructions that I can now sort of interpret. When this rifle is tackeled and sorted then I can go on to the Alpha Wolf. LOL
 
  • Like
Reactions: cavedweller
I have no inline reg on the gun. I only have one coming off the fill bottle to control the output for tuning purposes. So for example, if I am trying to find the right pulse length for 250 bar I would set the reg for that. Then I might go down to 220 bar to find the PL for that etc.
That’s the same thing I saw on the RW in TX; I did wonder how much weight shift occurred forward from this modification
 
  • Like
Reactions: okieairgunner
I'm new to the Airgunnation forum. I'm reading this post as a reference for tuning my Redwolf and I'm sorry to hear about Mark's passing.
I have a few questions and need help to resolve them:

1. Once I've established my target velocity, for example 970 fps, how do I determine the low pressure point? Is it random, for example 180 bar, 190 bar, 197 bar, 160 bar... and starting from that pressure, chosen at random, tune my RW determining the pulse length and voltage to achieve my target velocity, or is the low pressure point determined by the pulse length and voltage that I have by factory default in the rifle as the lowest bottle pressure that reaches my target velocity?

2. Following the reasoning of point 1, once the low pressure point is established, is the mid pressure point random or is it determined as the mid point of the 250 bar-low pressure point interval? For example, if the low pressure point is 190 bar and the high pressure point is 250 bar, is the medium pressure point 190+ (250-190/2)= 220 bar?

3. Once the low, medium and high pressures have been established (I assume 250 bars), should the pulse length be the one that always gives me the target speed or as close to it as possible (for example 970 fps) or just above 970 fps?

I hope my questions are not too confusing.

Thank you very much for your help
 
  • Like
Reactions: cavedweller
I'm new to the Airgunnation forum. I'm reading this post as a reference for tuning my Redwolf and I'm sorry to hear about Mark's passing.
I have a few questions and need help to resolve them:

1. Once I've established my target velocity, for example 970 fps, how do I determine the low pressure point? Is it random, for example 180 bar, 190 bar, 197 bar, 160 bar... and starting from that pressure, chosen at random, tune my RW determining the pulse length and voltage to achieve my target velocity, or is the low pressure point determined by the pulse length and voltage that I have by factory default in the rifle as the lowest bottle pressure that reaches my target velocity?

2. Following the reasoning of point 1, once the low pressure point is established, is the mid pressure point random or is it determined as the mid point of the 250 bar-low pressure point interval? For example, if the low pressure point is 190 bar and the high pressure point is 250 bar, is the medium pressure point 190+ (250-190/2)= 220 bar?

3. Once the low, medium and high pressures have been established (I assume 250 bars), should the pulse length be the one that always gives me the target speed or as close to it as possible (for example 970 fps) or just above 970 fps?

I hope my questions are not too confusing.

Thank you very much for your help
Hey there! I'm in the process of programming my Redwolf .22 High Power using JSB 25.39 RD. I'm not an expert so if some else knows more about this, please correct.

I'll share some information that the folks at Airguns of Arizona passed on to me about tuning these pellets for 970 fps, which AoA said that I should be able to get 50 shots with an ES of 15 - 17 fps.

Question #1 - AoA recommended setting the low pressure point to about 180 bar, then adjust the pulse length to get the velocity. From what I understand, voltage is how hard the hammer hits the valve, pulse length is the duration of volts. Don't set the voltage above 70 and AoA recommended 68.8 volts. My Redwolf was programmed with volts at 69.96 when I got it, so I left it there.

I'm thinking that at some point, increasing the pulse length would no longer have an effect on velocity, so you would need to increase the pressure if you're not at the velocity you want. But this is an assumption on my part. This will be your low pressure point/pulse length.

Question #2 - Find the pulse length you need for the high pressure point of 250 bar to reach the velocity you're looking for (which should be the same as the velocity at the low pressure point). I currently have set the mid pressure point as you've described above (250 + 180)/2 = 215.

Question #3 - Setting the mid pulse length is where I discovered, at least for my Redwolf, something interesting. I initially set the mid pulse length to give me my target velocity at 215 bar, but that resulted in a "hump" in velocity in the middle of the shot string. I had to reduce the mid pulse length to flatten the curve, which resulted in a lower ES over the entire shot string. So for my rifle, the mid pulse length needs to be closer to the low pulse length than the high pulse length. Using this equation, (High Pulse - Mid Pulse)/(High Pulse - Low Pulse) = X, I found where X = about 68% would result in a flat velocity curve.

Right now, my average velocity is 950 fps with an ES of 18 fps over 50 shots with JSB 25.39 RD straight from the tin, no sorting. I'm thinking sorting will help reduce the ES as my velocity curve trend line is flat across the shot string. I'm now adjusting my pulse lengths uniformly (add 50 to each, take away 50 from each, etc.) to find the most accurate velocity. Then I'll start sorting pellets.

Again, I'm no expert, so take this for what it's worth and if someone knows more, please share as I would really like to learn more.

Noah
 
  • Like
Reactions: kwaping
I'm new to the Airgunnation forum. I'm reading this post as a reference for tuning my Redwolf and I'm sorry to hear about Mark's passing.
I have a few questions and need help to resolve them:

1. Once I've established my target velocity, for example 970 fps, how do I determine the low pressure point? Is it random, for example 180 bar, 190 bar, 197 bar, 160 bar... and starting from that pressure, chosen at random, tune my RW determining the pulse length and voltage to achieve my target velocity, or is the low pressure point determined by the pulse length and voltage that I have by factory default in the rifle as the lowest bottle pressure that reaches my target velocity?

2. Following the reasoning of point 1, once the low pressure point is established, is the mid pressure point random or is it determined as the mid point of the 250 bar-low pressure point interval? For example, if the low pressure point is 190 bar and the high pressure point is 250 bar, is the medium pressure point 190+ (250-190/2)= 220 bar?

3. Once the low, medium and high pressures have been established (I assume 250 bars), should the pulse length be the one that always gives me the target speed or as close to it as possible (for example 970 fps) or just above 970 fps?

I hope my questions are not too confusing.

Thank you very much for your help
It looks as if you did not read, or didn't understand Mark's explanations... all this is covered quite carefully,...
Depending on the porting, the max velocity will be limited by pressure. Finding the low pressure point is simply shooting the gun down in pressure till it drops below your target velocity, then adding dwell to see if you can make your target velocity, and repeating this till it won't make the velocity. I don't have a regulator, so I tether mine and bump the pressure when I need to.
The mid pressure is NOT the middle between high and low... this was carefully explained... it is NOT linear.
Hopefully you have recorded all your original settings...
@Franklink and AEAC have both created threads or videos that are quite in depth as well.
Once you go through it properly, you'll find it's not difficult, just comsumes a little time. The result is quite worth it though...
Bob
 
Ok... perhaps I didn't respond well... my apologies...
I just see the same questions over and over when the answers are already there...
Changing the voltage will move the power level across the string so if you have a string you are happy with in consistency, but want more or less power, you can change the voltage. Note that it will move the whole shot string curve as a GENERALITY , but may require some fine tuning if you are changing very much. With that in mind, there is usually not a reason to tinker with the voltage as long as it is ENOUGH ... For instance, the voltage will be quite different between low, med, and Hi powers when tuned from the factory or normalish tuning.
As was stated above, the mid power point is moved to change the curve to help achieve a more consistent velocity across the string. As was highlighted in Mark's explanations, it is NOT linear, which includes voltage and dwell settings.
You have a max pressure of 250 bar, that's fixed... the main thing you have to find is the low pressure that will achieve the velocity, and then start there. Going from others low pressures is a good start.
As was carefully explained in this thread, there are limitations and influences from wear that VERY much affect its potential. For instance, the breech blocks are built up in 4 different calibers... the 177 has a MUCH smaller transfer port than the 25 and 30. The 22 is between. The valves will also be built in 3 different port configurations with the PEEK seal being a part of that. So 3 frame ports, 3 valve ports, and 3 PEEK seal sizes. Yours seems to be a 22, so should be the middle size... which means that your energy will likely top out at 52 or so ft lb and need around 200 bar minimum to achieve that. Mine are 25/30 cal size throughout so can achieve that power as low as 175 bar.
Then there is wear... the main part that affects power is the valve stem oring. In my own rifles, when this is worn, velocity drops by 40 fps. It could be more ore less in some and may depend on the seal material... the factory used 90D buna ones for a while, maybe still do, and it's toast in less than 1k shots if you're running 50+ ft lb. The very best for this is cast polyurethane ones in 90D. They are typically good for more than 5k at high powers. Then there are the other points that were mentioned for wear... all this needs to be good before you start programming critically.

So hopefully this will give you an idea how to start...
Bob
 
Thanks a lot Bob. I am very grateful for your help and detailed description. I understand this is a very asked topic, but believe me, I have read over 200 posts on this forum about Redwolf tuning and it was never clear to me until I read Mark's thread over and over again. Thanks to you I found Franklink's posts which are very helpful, but I had never found them before in my searches. Thanks again for your time and explanation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Arzrover