N/A The elusive airgun that AVERAGES 100 yard sub moa groups.

[tommyb]

Perhaps because you pulled it down/sideways slightly for flatness while stapling to the cardboard and created tension one way more than the other. Just a speculation, of course.

My target was fixed with paper clips along upper/lower edges, that created some vertical tension, which was harder for slug to overcome, so it was ripping the paper horizontally. Here me shooting without refilling, you can see slugs started to tear the paper when the pressure dropped quite a bit:

View attachment 415379

Thanks.

I am wondering if the larger pellets hitting much harder, just end up tearing the paper more?

In other words, are the heavier pellets hitting with such force that they tend to tear the target paper more easily than a smaller pellet at a lower velocity?

By contrast, my .22 JSB 25.39 RDs or JSB 18’s make nice round holes most of the time with the exact same N50 target.

 

[vtl]

Thanks.

I am wondering if the larger pellets hitting much harder, just end up tearing the paper more?

In other words, are the heavier pellets hitting with such force that they tend to tear the target paper more easily than a smaller pellet at a lower velocity?

By contrast, my .22 JSB 25.39 RDs or JSB 18’s make nice round holes most of the time with the exact same N50 target.

.510 300+ gr slugs leave no tears, just holes when the air is way up. They start to tear it when the pressure/speed/energy drops. Velocity 950 to 800 FPS - no tears. What FPS numbers do you see with .30 and .22?

 

[tommyb]

.510 300+ gr slugs leave no tears, just holes when the air is way up. They start to tear it when the pressure/speed/energy drops. Velocity 950 to 800 FPS - no tears. What FPS numbers do you see with .30 and .22?

The FX Boss .30 and EVOL Paradigm both shoot the 44g JSB around 870-875, essentially in the sweet spot range of 875-900 FPS for both platforms.

Cole, I can take this offline. I’m drifting into the abyss as usual. Just let me know.

The three 28-30 FPE .22 calibers (Royale, HW100, Revere ) all shoot the 18.1g in the 840-890 FPS range. No tears at 30-50y shooting the N50 targets or any 80-110lb cardstock targets. Yes, I don’t get any tears with slugs in the Paradigm .30. However, both the Boss .30 and Paradigm .30 shooting 44g pellets tear the N50 card. Strange…

Can increased velocity and pellet size/weight cause this effect? I’m asking because it is a strange coincidence that it happens with both .30 platforms, and not the lower power .22cals shooting smaller sized pellets with the exact same N50 official targets.

Or, can it be that I’m unintentionally stapling the N50 target to the thick cardboard in such a fashion that this is causing the tears? I.e., your first idea.

 

[Franklink]

Id be curious to know the speed the .30s are retaining g at 100 yards. Perhaps they're moving really slow....?

Other than the curiosity factor of speed at 100yards, slugs always seem to cut nice clean edged holes when compared to pellets that kinda rip/push through when they hit the paper.

 

[tommyb]

Id be curious to know the speed the .30s are retaining g at 100 yards. Perhaps they're moving really slow....?

Other than the curiosity factor of speed at 100yards, slugs always seem to cut nice clean edged holes when compared to pellets that kinda rip/push through when they hit the paper.

Yep, the slugs always cut nice round holes.

Unfortunately, my FX Radar does not calculate FPE at 100 yards. I know LAB Radar and others can do this. Could be that the 44g pellets are moving so slow that maybe they spiral???

But, how then would I be getting the good accuracy?

 

[Franklink]

Yep, the slugs always cut nice round holes.

Unfortunately, my FX Radar does not calculate FPE at 100 yards. I know LAB Radar and others can do this. Could be that the 44g pellets are moving so slow that maybe they spiral???

But, how then would I be getting the good accuracy?

I don't think you're spiraling or you wouldn't be able to shoot the kinds of groups you're shooting.

Had the thought that maybe they arc is such a rainbow that the pellets are pointing down by the time they get to 100, but looked at your pellet holes more closely and they don't all agree with that idea.

Probably as simple as big cross section pellet smashing its way through the paper.

 

[tommyb]

Yeah, I was wildly speculating with the spiraling pellet idea. If that was the case, the groups would open up a lot.

I think your last sentence makes the most sense. Big pellet, ugly hole.

 

[mrdennison]

Ill shoot some 100 yard groups today with my inconsistent panthera and super consistent vudoo.

 

[Bert928GT]

My Sinner airgun is outstanding and it shoots in match conditions always smaller groups than moa during the last 2 years at 100 meters.

 

[tommyb]

My Sinner airgun is outstanding and it shoots in match conditions always smaller groups than moa during the last 2 years at 100 meters.

Hey Bert

Anxious to see your 100m/yard 5-shot groups. Why don’t you try the N50 “slugs in the rings” challenge target? You will have a blast trying to keep all those MOA groups inside the bulls.

I think you can print off an 8 X 11” N50 target, which is on the forum. Or, just post your groups perhaps using the EBR or RMAC 8x11” targets

Here is the link to print the N50 target and see the rules.

N50 at 100 “In The Rings” Slug Challenge

Now that the weather is starting to break…I thought maybe some people would like to play something different as far as bench shooting goes. The target used will be the N50 shot at 100y using slugs on air or 22LR if you like. Below is a printable portion of the N50 on standard 8 1/2 x 11...

www.airgunnation.com

Tom

 

[Franklink]

Hey Bert

Anxious to see your 100m/yard 5-shot groups. Why don’t you try the N50 “slugs in the rings” challenge target? You will have a blast trying to keep all those MOA groups inside the bulls.

I think you can print off an 8 X 11” N50 target, which is on the forum.

Tom

Yep yep. Show us a 5x5 @ 100 yards/meters. Preferably 25 consecutive shots.

I've been intrigued by the sparse info that occasionally comes up online regarding the Sinner.

Slugs or pellets?

 

[Franklink]

Ill shoot some 100 yard groups today with my inconsistent panthera and super consistent vudoo.

The airgun versus high end rimfire comparison is always interesting.

 

[Bert928GT]

The Sinner is not built in large numbers. I think in cal. 223 the total production is perhaps 50.

 

[Bert928GT]

20230910-194559 hosted at ImgBB

Image 20230910-194559 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

This was our last match in december 2022 and my worst one of that year, but the only match with electronic shot count. It was in cold conditions. You can see the gun is outstanding at 110 yards.

Bert

 

[Franklink]

Looks VERY good Bert.

Are unlimited # of sighters allowed?

 

[Bert928GT]

Yep yep. Show us a 5x5 @ 100 yards/meters. Preferably 25 consecutive shots.

I've been intrigued by the sparse info that occasionally comes up online regarding the Sinner.

Slugs or pellets?

The Sinner shoots the slugs from rws. They are the same as Rws rim fire amo, same speed. Barrel Lothar walther twist 16 inch length 29 inch free floating.

 

[Bert928GT]

Looks VERY good Bert.

Are unlimited # of sighters allowed?

We only have a bipod in the front, nothing else. Scoop is free.

 

[Franklink]

We only have a bipod in the front, nothing else. Scoop is free.

How many shots are you allowed? In the image you shared I see 30 (6x5) but how many shots can you shoot that aren't included in the 30 that count towards score?

Ie, are you taking additional shots in between the shots that count? In the benchrest events here in the US, people are allowed as many shots as they have time for and a common benchrest practice is to take MANY MANY MANY shots to aid in figuring out impact points. When a guy thinks he has the conditions figured out he takes a shot that will count, and then goes back to blasting away, occasionally taking shots that count, interspersed with all the sighters.

 

[Bert928GT]

How many shots are you allowed? In the image you shared I see 30 (6x5) but how many shots can you shoot that aren't included in the 30 that count towards score?

Ie, are you taking additional shots in between the shots that count? In the benchrest events here in the US, people are allowed as many shots as they have time for and a common benchrest practice is to take MANY MANY MANY shots to aid in figuring out impact points. When a guy thinks he has the conditions figured out he takes a shot that will count, and then goes back to blasting away, occasionally taking shots that count, interspersed with all the sighters.

We had 30 minutes total time. In this time you start test shooting and after that you push a button and then all the next 30 shots are counting and no more test shots.
So my picture are 30 shots after each other and nothing else.

 

[Franklink]

We had 30 minutes total time. In this time you start test shooting and after that you push a button and then all the next 30 shots are counting and no more test shots.
So my picture are 30 shots after each other and nothing else.

I like that concept!

Lots of sighters up front, but once you' start taking shots that count, they ALL count. Seems a happy medium between my preference and typical benchrest.

And knowing that it's 30 shots in a row, I'm now more impressed by your groups.