I haven't shot rabbits in years but yeah - you could probably take one down with a sling shot. They seem to be very . . . "fragile".
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This is a VITAL thread
- Thread starter intenseaty22
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I’ve seen and had bad experience with head shots on larger game. So I do not take them haven’t for over 20 years now. I don’t have any pics anymore but heart\lung shots is they way I go. I’ve found that on squirrel there is not enough meat in the ribs to worry about saving. Mostly use a .22 cal but I’ve found that .30 to the vitals is pretty F ing dead. With vital shots you get the distinct thud too. Not sure I’ve went for a vital on a mouse the caliber to body ratio seems to displace life force efficiently enough.
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I saw a rabbit killed by dirt years ago. We were out quail hunting with shotguns. The rule was you couldn't shoot at a rabbit unless the owner of the dog did first. Then they were fair game. The owner took a shot that missed as the rabbit ran across a plowed field. We marked where it went into the fence row planning to kick it out when we got there. We found it dead. We figured maybe he hadn't missed. But when we cleaned it, there were no pellets in it. But it was badly bruised in the abdomen where the dirt kicked up from the errant shot hit it.
I shot one with my Prod in the front of the chest. I found the FTT behind a rear leg. It went through the length of the 3 lb rabbit. But it ran for about 50 feet before it collapsed. The only two squirrels out of 8 hit with body shots from my P35-25 that ran were hit with a similar shot into the front of the chest traveling to the rear. The other 6 were shot in the shoulders and dropped. So did the 10 head/neck shots. The runners went at most 15 feet.
I was taking less detailed notes when I killed 15 squirrels with my Prod. But I lost 2 before I turned the power up. That's 2 out of 7 body shots. I don't know if it was the placement or the low power of the stock tune or some combination. But the 11 I shot after the retune all dropped or didn't travel far.
I've only body shot one with my P35-177 in the body. It was flailing it's legs as it fell from the tree but my dog grabbed it and finished it off so it did not have a chance to run. It fell because I shot it in the shoulder. I'm thinking body shots with even a reasonably powerful 177 (19 fpe) may stop them more slowly than my 25s but I need more cooperative squirrels to stop by so I can gather more data. The 3 I hit in the head dropped at the shot. I counted the one I shot today as a head/neck shot because that is where the pellet went despite the fact I hit it in the shoulder. It was pretty high up in an oak tree and facing somewhat away from me so the pellet took a somewhat unusual path. It went in the shoulder, clipped at least one lung, went up the neck, through the head and ended up under the skin under the eye. It dropped stone dead instantly.
I think brain/neck shots and body (heart/lung) shots are effective but I also think body shots with non-expanding rounds from smaller calibers may take a bit longer to kill. But I am not sure of that yet. I am pretty sure that front of chest shots take longer. Not a lot of data points but very consistent results. I don't think expanding projectiles help unless you have plenty of power so you still get enough penetration with the expanding round. For a low powered gun I think it's better to use a non-expanding round and just make sure you place it well.
I take what the animal gives me and if I can shoot it in either lethal location I take the brain unless I am not very steady and then I shoot the shoulder (or pass on the shot). I've had uniformly good results with brain shots but I aim towards of the back of the head to improve the chance I get the brain. If I get the neck it seems to work just as well. My P35-25 crushed the skull of one small squirrel when I missed the brain, however. I think making a bigger hole helped get this result.
I shot one with my Prod in the front of the chest. I found the FTT behind a rear leg. It went through the length of the 3 lb rabbit. But it ran for about 50 feet before it collapsed. The only two squirrels out of 8 hit with body shots from my P35-25 that ran were hit with a similar shot into the front of the chest traveling to the rear. The other 6 were shot in the shoulders and dropped. So did the 10 head/neck shots. The runners went at most 15 feet.
I was taking less detailed notes when I killed 15 squirrels with my Prod. But I lost 2 before I turned the power up. That's 2 out of 7 body shots. I don't know if it was the placement or the low power of the stock tune or some combination. But the 11 I shot after the retune all dropped or didn't travel far.
I've only body shot one with my P35-177 in the body. It was flailing it's legs as it fell from the tree but my dog grabbed it and finished it off so it did not have a chance to run. It fell because I shot it in the shoulder. I'm thinking body shots with even a reasonably powerful 177 (19 fpe) may stop them more slowly than my 25s but I need more cooperative squirrels to stop by so I can gather more data. The 3 I hit in the head dropped at the shot. I counted the one I shot today as a head/neck shot because that is where the pellet went despite the fact I hit it in the shoulder. It was pretty high up in an oak tree and facing somewhat away from me so the pellet took a somewhat unusual path. It went in the shoulder, clipped at least one lung, went up the neck, through the head and ended up under the skin under the eye. It dropped stone dead instantly.
I think brain/neck shots and body (heart/lung) shots are effective but I also think body shots with non-expanding rounds from smaller calibers may take a bit longer to kill. But I am not sure of that yet. I am pretty sure that front of chest shots take longer. Not a lot of data points but very consistent results. I don't think expanding projectiles help unless you have plenty of power so you still get enough penetration with the expanding round. For a low powered gun I think it's better to use a non-expanding round and just make sure you place it well.
I take what the animal gives me and if I can shoot it in either lethal location I take the brain unless I am not very steady and then I shoot the shoulder (or pass on the shot). I've had uniformly good results with brain shots but I aim towards of the back of the head to improve the chance I get the brain. If I get the neck it seems to work just as well. My P35-25 crushed the skull of one small squirrel when I missed the brain, however. I think making a bigger hole helped get this result.
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I switched from my almost 60 ft-lb cricket 25 to my 22 Uragan compact years ago for 98+% of pesting, powder burners for the other 1%. A couple or three years ago I switched from 18 gr jsb's to 14.7 gr round nose and tuned my uragan down to about 22 ft-lbs from the 30 with the jsb's. It is slightly more accurate now, quieter, and uses less air by a lot. No noticeable difference at all shooting squirrels out to 50ish yards, you don't need much power and don't need heavy/expanding pellets. Body shots kill them quick with the 14.7's, with most just falling straight down, bouncing and hardly twitching at all. I bet the difference from my 25 cricket at 60 ft-lbs and my Uragan at 22 ft-lbs nothing on over 95% I shoot. The very few it did make a small difference on is nothing to worry about. A bad shot is a bad shot, the small difference between a .25 and a 22 hardly ever makes any difference with a bad shot. I've killed several hundred with the Uragan, and before that I used the cricket for many more years than the uragan and may be close to a thousand with it. I honestly don't think the difference is worth worrying about it is so small.
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I was on the second floor, so I don't think it ended up in the brain, but you never know. Those Hybrid Slugs end up fragmenting like dum dum rounds!
Here is another groundhog bodyshot I did, that definitely didn't end up in the noggin, and still took him out very quickly:
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All of my shots are recorded with my ATN scopes. This shot was with the ATN X-Sight 4K Pro 3-14x scope, and it can record at 120 fps, which I slow down in the video edit 5X back to normal 24fps. If you see a video from me with a thermal scope, I use the ATN THoR 4 384 1.25-5x scope, which only can record 60 fps, so the slo-mo isn't as smooth.
Both scopes have the ATN ABL Bluetooth Laser Rangefinder using the Ballistic Calculator feature and QD mounts so I can swap between my different airguns.
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what are my experiences with 'vitals' shots .. depends on your definition i guess, ive seen the results of 'aim for the middle' a suffering maimed animal which winds up looking you straight in the eye with a terror thats hard to forget for anyone with a concience after youve shot it up multiple times ... but yeah i can define a head/vitals shot as the same thing .. im confident it will hit the head neck or chest, thats a good shot, usually its a one shot drop vs the aim for the middle because im excited and just gonna take any shot because the whole thing is a target .. no .. that kind of 'vitals' shot borders on evil ..
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Picture is a post that is the longest shot I ever take on squirrels at my place with a pellet rifle, it is just a few feet the opposite side of my driveway. My uragan shooting the 14.7 gr pellets at only 22 ft-lbs has no problem killing clean at that distance with vital shots. The gates are down and ruined thanks to the fire department, I had a huge barn fire. Can't complain about them getting the gates down in a hurry to get the tanker trucks in. Certain times of the year the buggers are digging in a slope another 60 yards away causing erosion issues, the 17 HMR comes out for them. You can't really see the pecan tree there, and really I just let the squirrels have that one. Except they have a habit of climbing up that post and sit there eating a pecan. Can't pass up that easy shot, I know the exact MOA to hold with my vortex viper pst for a squirrel sitting there, bad for them. My other pecan trees are all within 27 yards of the house, two are under 30 feet.
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Low 20s with a 22 caliber seems about right to me. My Prod with 18 fpe has killed every squirrel I've shot it at. But it rarely exits and I kind of like exit wounds. A little more power should let at least some shots exit. I haven't shot a squirrel yet with my P35-22 which has over 30 fpe. It penetrates further in wet paper than my 25 which exited on 15 of 18 shots. So I am pretty sure it will exit but potentially with enough energy to fly off somewhere and damage something. Staying at low 20s should make the residual energy on any exits low enough to not be a significant risk.
Stated a different way, I am trying to stay safely above the minimum energy that will kill. I want some allowance for an angle that isn't the best or less than optimum placement, etc.. I think my P35-177 at 19 fpe may give me a bit more than the minimum and low 20s with a 22 probably does too. My P35-25 is probably a little higher than it needs to be at about 32 fpe. My 22 and 25 give me enough energy that I can sensibly take a longer shot than normal, maybe as long as 50 yards, however.
Stated a different way, I am trying to stay safely above the minimum energy that will kill. I want some allowance for an angle that isn't the best or less than optimum placement, etc.. I think my P35-177 at 19 fpe may give me a bit more than the minimum and low 20s with a 22 probably does too. My P35-25 is probably a little higher than it needs to be at about 32 fpe. My 22 and 25 give me enough energy that I can sensibly take a longer shot than normal, maybe as long as 50 yards, however.
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I took this one at 20 yards a few weeks ago. The tool of choice was my Sub-12fpe, .177 Daystate Revere slinging 10.5gr Mako Slugs. Shot placement was just behind the shoulder.
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@intenseaty22 Nice! I can say that I am impressed with your placement and what you’ve shared using those .177 Mako slugs. I remember watching at least one video on them.
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Thanks. Frankly, the gun is just so dang accurate, not shooting long distance either, usually under 35 yards. Those slugs are done right too!
Was that my video you speak of?
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@intenseaty22 I believe that you posted a video shooting in your yard (I think it was your yard) around the time you first got the Makos and was showing the expansion using a 12 fpe gun from what I can recall. They shot pretty accurate too, so to see those results from such a small caliber impressed me. It was very informative as well. Not a lot of power necessary to be effective in humanely dispatching rather tough little rodents.
Edit: This video was the one I had in mind. Is this not you in the video?
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Yes, that was my video. I was not sure if you were speaking of mine or someone else's. Yeah, those Makos are done right. The lead is on the softer side and expand very well at Sub-12. I already knew they were accurate, but that mushroom blew my mind away!! I'm thinking about upping the power to about 15 on the Revere just to see what I see.
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