Thormolds, anyone swaging with them?

Weights within .01 gn ....that's consistent!

The footage is doctored. Why? If you observe carefully, the person is not swaging from lead wire, but he is doing minor adjustment to the punch depth and re swaging already swaged slugs.

Re swaging already swaged slugs will always give you consistent weights because the pressures are least, but the axial alignment of the slugs will alter significantly because the homogenization of the material that bleeds out is not uniformly distributed, it exits from the easiest way out.

If you compare 2 videos back to back, in the first video the person is trying to press down the press every single time from top, but in second video the press barely moves. I wont comment on the flex part, but.... you get my point.
 
There is a fine line between making slugs and making consistent slugs. Accuracy is other bit that I don't want to spill beans about . But I feel that after going through the forum I feel to emphasize that please do triple check and verify what you buy and from whom you buy. Here are some red flags.
  1. Crypto payments,
  2. 3 day refund policy / Paypal payments to a 3rd party, Send to a friend. ( its rubbish, PayPal has a 3 month refund and 6 month claims policy )
  3. No commitment for warranty as per law.
  4. No word about service support / guarantee.
  5. Lack of verified reviews / Doctored footage of performance.
  6. Lack of support mechanism , Helplines, Email etc.
  7. Lack of professionalism.
  8. Circumvented logistics.
I had conversation with Dave of Corbin manufacturing long time back. All he said was "Corbin is No1. Because we had 30 years to come up with a easy to make "C" frame press, But we did not! "
I've read in a few places how precise the Press Slug is compared to the Corbin. I'm not an engineer but I just don't see how the cobin setup which looks like some steel bolted together with threaded rods (which they charge 2k for) is more stable then 1 piece of machined steel.
"
8iuTX4LlGZO.png
Author
FT Airguns
Juan Pablo presslug have better quality, tight fit and the dies holder center to center perfect. The finishing on the dies is awesome.
Corbin is more basic, no micro adjustment and the die don't set straight in the thread. The puncher holder also is not auto centered, you must do a manual alignment."

 
The footage is doctored. Why? If you observe carefully, the person is not swaging from lead wire, but he is doing minor adjustment to the punch depth and re swaging already swaged slugs.

Re swaging already swaged slugs will always give you consistent weights because the pressures are least, but the axial alignment of the slugs will alter significantly because the homogenization of the material that bleeds out is not uniformly distributed, it exits from the easiest way out.

If you compare 2 videos back to back, in the first video the person is trying to press down the press every single time from top, but in second video the press barely moves. I wont comment on the flex part, but.... you get my point.
That video the press isn’t bolted down.
 
I've read in a few places how precise the Press Slug is compared to the Corbin. I'm not an engineer but I just don't see how the cobin setup which looks like some steel bolted together with threaded rods (which they charge 2k for) is more stable then 1 piece of machined steel.
"
8iuTX4LlGZO.png
Author
FT Airguns
Juan Pablo presslug have better quality, tight fit and the dies holder center to center perfect. The finishing on the dies is awesome.
Corbin is more basic, no micro adjustment and the die don't set straight in the thread. The puncher holder also is not auto centered, you must do a manual alignment."

Yes! Unfortunately the way we see things is where we miss out the fine details. What FT airguns is stating is the quality in fit and finish, Which is but obvious in a single piece aluminum machined and anodized press. In terms of aesthetics press slug is miles ahead of Corbin. But this is where we miss the fine details.

A. Press Slug is machined Aluminium

B. Corbin is Machined steel with 2 bolts is designed to swage copper jacketed bullets. - Press slug can barely match the strength that Corbin press has.

Its the design that people may have opinions about, But I swear by the sheer force that S press can exert without a hiccup.

To put it into perspective, At some time we made 4 million slugs using Corbin presses, Nick Nielsen has some similar stories ( before automation ) and so does Rat sniper. We have Those presses still going strong.

All I wish to say is that, look for rigidity, a C is never as rigid as a 'O' for its open ended.
 
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Yes! Unfortunately the way we see things is where we miss out the fine details. What FT airguns is stating is the quality in fit and finish, Which is but obvious in a single piece aluminum machined and anodized press. In terms of aesthetics press slug is miles ahead of Corbin. But this is where we miss the fine details.

A. Press Slug is machined Aluminium

B. Corbin is Machined steel with 2 bolts is designed to swage copper jacketed bullets. - Press slug can barely match the strength that Corbin press has.

Its the design that people may have opinions about, But I swear by the sheer force that S press can exert without a hiccup.

To put it into perspective, At some time we made 4 million slugs using Corbin presses, Nick Nielsen has some similar stories ( before automation ) and so does Rat sniper. We have Those presses still going strong.

All I wish to say is that, look for rigidity, a C is never as rigid as a 'O' for its open ended.
I appreciate the feedback, really do. I don't mind paying a little more for durability and precision but when it's twice as much or more then I get wondering if it's worth the additional cost especially when you hear things like a lesser costing item may actually be better. FT airguns mentions it holding center better....like which machine is more precise, which machine puts the hollow point truly centered. Bottom line and I know every rifle is different but which will produce more accurate and constant slugs. If one produces consistent weights but the slug is not symmetrical and perfectly balanced and wobbles in flight then it doesn't matter how consistent the weight is.

Would just be nice to see a table that would easily compare each one.
 
I've read in a few places how precise the Press Slug is compared to the Corbin. I'm not an engineer but I just don't see how the cobin setup which looks like some steel bolted together with threaded rods (which they charge 2k for) is more stable then 1 piece of machined steel.
"
8iuTX4LlGZO.png
Author
FT Airguns
Juan Pablo presslug have better quality, tight fit and the dies holder center to center perfect. The finishing on the dies is awesome.
Corbin is more basic, no micro adjustment and the die don't set straight in the thread. The puncher holder also is not auto centered, you must do a manual alignment."

I can tell you this with the Presslug, their .22 dies have major problems. I bought test slugs from Apex Airguns and they were the worst slugs I have shot. There is a reason no one is talking about them.
 
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A slug can be produced perfectly round, perfect hollow and perfect tail AND consistent in weight AND still not shoot very accurately in a given gun.

It would be nice if one could purchase example slugs before spending such money on a particular die.

I make my own dies or else, I wouldn’t even mess with swaging due to the cost of admission. I can’t get over the thought of purchasing a die and it just wasn’t a good match (design, size) for my gun (s).

Dave
 
There is a fine line between making slugs and making consistent slugs. Accuracy is other bit that I don't want to spill beans about . But I feel that after going through the forum I feel to emphasize that please do triple check and verify what you buy and from whom you buy. Here are some red flags.
  1. Crypto payments,
  2. 3 day refund policy / Paypal payments to a 3rd party, Send to a friend. ( its rubbish, PayPal has a 3 month refund and 6 month claims policy )
  3. No commitment for warranty as per law.
  4. No word about service support / guarantee.
  5. Lack of verified reviews / Doctored footage of performance.
  6. Lack of support mechanism , Helplines, Email etc.
  7. Lack of professionalism.
  8. Circumvented logistics.
I had conversation with Dave of Corbin manufacturing long time back. All he said was "Corbin is No1. Because we had 30 years to come up with a easy to make "C" frame press, But we did not! "
I heard dave already sold the company to some young guys?

One of his ex employee contacted me to partnership to develop new press.
 
@ZekeZX10 , Yes, Press slug is ergonomic, but its not built like a tank. Corbin is not smooth around the edges but its built like a tank. Both of these presses are axially aligned. Corbin needs adjustment to center align its punch. Its a one time effort. Whereas press slug also needs alignment, Both of these dies use the die center to align the hollow point pin so its always centered.

Right and prudent use of Corbin tech gives you precise slugs, so does press slug ( I reserve my comments on accuracy though, as @sb327 mentioned )

Both these systems cost a lot , and that's because each and every single part of Corbin press is precision ground, while press slug is CNC machined. Grinding and honing is more precise. Both of the manufacturers employ expensive machines to get it done.

But its the marketing that Press Slug has championed.

Earlier I had a very controversial opinion, I could have easily offended a lot of people. But here it is.

1. The company that still ships its 177 - 30 cal air rifles with pellet barrels made by Lothar Walther is marketing and distributing 177 - 357 cal slug swaging equipment in calibers suited primarily to FX air rifles and its STX slug liners. ( I am not talking about their big bores ). Hypocrisy is that they themselves use cast big bore slugs to compete in competitions, they dont swage their own competition ammo in those calibers on the equipment they market.

2. A British company is selling Howler repackaged slugs in sizes suited to FX air rifles STX slug liners. And they themselves use pellets in all competition formats !

3. A Russian company is doing what these both are doing simultaneously, Its founder once said that he wont jump on the Slug band wagon. And still uses LW pellet barrels while marketing slug making equipment.

How controversial can this be?

We offend a lot of people by stating facts at work or on projects, but honesty saves the day for us. I've explained how LW pellet barrels are not ideal for slugs over 50 yards (https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/not-all-barrels-can-shoot-slugs.1294366/#post-1540709 ),

Yet people commit the cardinal mistake of using slugs made for FX barrels and complain about inconsistent performance when the POI shifts with a new batch of slugs. On other hand we have FX air rifles slinging slugs all day long at NRL PRS, RMAC, NEAC and regional matches at 100 plus yards, But you wont find a lot of them doing the same in a factory stock pellet guns of FX as well. A fact that you can verify on how often you have to clean your pellet barrels post a session of shooting slugs.

The only way to make slugs work in any gun is by testing and tuning them, testing sizes, weights and diameters. And only when a given size works that's when we replicate the diameters in a swaging setup. Historically speaking, 216, 217 , 218's are the sizes that popped up around 2015-2017, before that we had cast slugs and 22 LR bullets pushed through sizers, Nick was working out of his garage. I was texting Matt and @SorenDrost about the successful test of 177 and 22 stepped ogive slug swage die.

@Ezana4CE said, Its important for information to be made public, because it helps in decision making. But not all information can be put on public forum as it may cause things to go haywire. Just facts - common sense approach to fundamentals can help in a much better way.
 
@ZekeZX10 , Yes, Press slug is ergonomic, but its not built like a tank. Corbin is not smooth around the edges but its built like a tank. Both of these presses are axially aligned. Corbin needs adjustment to center align its punch. Its a one time effort. Whereas press slug also needs alignment, Both of these dies use the die center to align the hollow point pin so its always centered.

Right and prudent use of Corbin tech gives you precise slugs, so does press slug ( I reserve my comments on accuracy though, as @sb327 mentioned )

Both these systems cost a lot , and that's because each and every single part of Corbin press is precision ground, while press slug is CNC machined. Grinding and honing is more precise. Both of the manufacturers employ expensive machines to get it done.

But its the marketing that Press Slug has championed.

Earlier I had a very controversial opinion, I could have easily offended a lot of people. But here it is.

1. The company that still ships its 177 - 30 cal air rifles with pellet barrels made by Lothar Walther is marketing and distributing 177 - 357 cal slug swaging equipment in calibers suited primarily to FX air rifles and its STX slug liners. ( I am not talking about their big bores ). Hypocrisy is that they themselves use cast big bore slugs to compete in competitions, they dont swage their own competition ammo in those calibers on the equipment they market.

2. A British company is selling Howler repackaged slugs in sizes suited to FX air rifles STX slug liners. And they themselves use pellets in all competition formats !

3. A Russian company is doing what these both are doing simultaneously, Its founder once said that he wont jump on the Slug band wagon. And still uses LW pellet barrels while marketing slug making equipment.

How controversial can this be?

We offend a lot of people by stating facts at work or on projects, but honesty saves the day for us. I've explained how LW pellet barrels are not ideal for slugs over 50 yards (https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/not-all-barrels-can-shoot-slugs.1294366/#post-1540709 ),

Yet people commit the cardinal mistake of using slugs made for FX barrels and complain about inconsistent performance when the POI shifts with a new batch of slugs. On other hand we have FX air rifles slinging slugs all day long at NRL PRS, RMAC, NEAC and regional matches at 100 plus yards, But you wont find a lot of them doing the same in a factory stock pellet guns of FX as well. A fact that you can verify on how often you have to clean your pellet barrels post a session of shooting slugs.

The only way to make slugs work in any gun is by testing and tuning them, testing sizes, weights and diameters. And only when a given size works that's when we replicate the diameters in a swaging setup. Historically speaking, 216, 217 , 218's are the sizes that popped up around 2015-2017, before that we had cast slugs and 22 LR bullets pushed through sizers, Nick was working out of his garage. I was texting Matt and @SorenDrost about the successful test of 177 and 22 stepped ogive slug swage die.

@Ezana4CE said, Its important for information to be made public, because it helps in decision making. But not all information can be put on public forum as it may cause things to go haywire. Just facts - common sense approach to fundamentals can help in a much better way.
I do believe what I said. A lot of retired folks or people close to retirement participate in our hobby, as well as working folks. Many of us know the value of our earnings, so I think that information leads to purchasing decisions. Forums like this function off of shared information, sponsors fuel some forums like this. There is an obvious correlation beyond the consumer-producer relationship. Marketing is important. I see other businesses practices at play that make me shake my head, but seem to profit based upon sheer volume. These are the types of businesses I'm speaking of. Some of them heavily depend upon what appears to be half-hearted propaganda. That can lead to a big bubble with a slow leaking hole leading to the inevitable.

However, when pertinent information is released to the public, it is a service to the public. I believe that it has the ability to help forge a lasting core consumer base or maybe carve out a niche. This depends heavily upon transparency and reliability, meaning that the products are commiserate with the purported quality and specs, meeting or exceeding that of the competition, and at a competitive price point with good customer support. Those looking for the next "best thing", will likely continue to do so. Others that are seeking stable and consistent results, will hopefully remain loyal until technological developments or economics lead them elsewhere.
 
What was wrong with them? Every review I've seen people have love it. This dude says some of his best groups are with the presslug slugs
For .22, they currently only have .2161 and that what I received even though I selected .2173. Something it up with the .2173 and hasn't been available. Other calibers may not be an issue.