Anybody tried using these at the ends of the spring to eliminate twist in the shot cycle ? would it work ?
Sunday morning to much coffee ?
Sunday morning to much coffee ?
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Tuning Thrust bearing
- Thread starter beerthief
- Start date
Yup
For me I needed one in my TX. I was shooting my TX200 Tim bum set up. Tried it with and without thethrust bearing/slip washer. For me it was a big difference in felt recoil. The gun seems to torque more without the washer.
Edited: I better clarify it's not a real thrust bearing...it's just a slip washer.
For me I needed one in my TX. I was shooting my TX200 Tim bum set up. Tried it with and without the
Edited: I better clarify it's not a real thrust bearing...it's just a slip washer.
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i feel a twisting of the stock during the shot cycle HW 77 long .22 . I am a lefty and the gun twists to the left .
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Springer torque, the direction the spring unwinds when the sear is released is where you feel it, in worst case the gun can jump in a sideways direction from your POA.
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Works best if there's a top hat in place.
ARH been selling them for years in various sizes for different pistons!
ARH been selling them for years in various sizes for different pistons!
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Exactly . would placing a Thrust bearing to let the spring do it's thing maybe make a smoother shot ? placing the bearing between the spring end and the top hat , or in front of the top hat and the piston ,so the top hat and the spring end spins freely ?
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Interesting.
I never noticed any torque when shooting my FWB124 or my TX200, will have to watch for that. My other springers are low powered so torque would be minimal.
Cheers!
I never noticed any torque when shooting my FWB124 or my TX200, will have to watch for that. My other springers are low powered so torque would be minimal.
Cheers!
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Yes goes in the piston first. With a little moly on the end of the top hat it gives it a bearing like affect. Plus a little more preload on the spring itself. Most are about a quarter inch thick. Oops no more like a 1/8 thick
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i was thinking use a bearing to replace pre load washers ? I have never had a springer apart , only see pictures ........ so far .Yes goes in the piston first. With a little moly on the end of the top hat it gives it a bearing like affect. Plus a little more preload on the spring itself. Most are about a quarter inch thick. Oops no more like a 1/8 thick
Using the bearings would only lesson the shock , the spring would retain its normal movement . Maybe chasing my tail ?
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A spring naturally uncoils a bit as it's compressed so the bearing washer lets it do so freely without binding anything up!
Personally I think it helps in the spring life cycle too.
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It’s been done tested and a bad idea. The will come apart … properly made top hats are gonna do as well as you need. Unwinding the spring faster isn’t beneficial. . Controlling the rate it does is far more important. Saying something works on a 12 ft lb gun isn’t the same as a 20+ ft lb gun. Many will never experiace WHAT CAN be done with controlling the spring. You can’t get power with out it.
When they do break , and they will. They are not made for slamming pressure loads. it’s usually a bad situation and compression tubes get galled.
When they do break , and they will. They are not made for slamming pressure loads. it’s usually a bad situation and compression tubes get galled.
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The Timbum kits come with a delrin washer that goes between the piston and top hat. It eliminates twist.
It seems to work great on my HW97k. The gun shoots 690 fps and dosent lift or twist at all.
At the other end of the spectrum my old hatsans with no tophat and rough spring end twist like crazy.
That's not proof the thrust washer does anything but it is some anecdotal evidence. It makes sense that it would reduce friction at the piston end.
When installing the spring there WAS a lot of friction at the rear. When threading the breech plug the entire spring was turning against that washer. Without it there would have been much more torque. It stands to reason the spring would rotate much easier using the washer. I expected the guide to rotate in the breech plug rather than turning the entire spring but that wasnt the case. I think a thrust washer at both ends of the spring wouldn't hurt anything at all.
It seems to work great on my HW97k. The gun shoots 690 fps and dosent lift or twist at all.
At the other end of the spectrum my old hatsans with no tophat and rough spring end twist like crazy.
That's not proof the thrust washer does anything but it is some anecdotal evidence. It makes sense that it would reduce friction at the piston end.
When installing the spring there WAS a lot of friction at the rear. When threading the breech plug the entire spring was turning against that washer. Without it there would have been much more torque. It stands to reason the spring would rotate much easier using the washer. I expected the guide to rotate in the breech plug rather than turning the entire spring but that wasnt the case. I think a thrust washer at both ends of the spring wouldn't hurt anything at all.
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There were talks about them years ago.
As I recall the basic take away was this ....
Torque rotation during compression and extension of spring has the thrust plates rotation over the roller pins not enough to really have free rotation as such a bearing is designed to move. A short shuffle back and forth creates more a skid and the wear plates trend to pit / crater due to this minimal motion and extreme vibration / high loading.
* Also if ANY !!! of the roller pins get loose getting into the rifles mechanics ... BAD GUGU can happen !!!
A proper flatened spring end w/ edge bevel riding on a hard or semi hard synthetic thrust washer works just fine
As I recall the basic take away was this ....
Torque rotation during compression and extension of spring has the thrust plates rotation over the roller pins not enough to really have free rotation as such a bearing is designed to move. A short shuffle back and forth creates more a skid and the wear plates trend to pit / crater due to this minimal motion and extreme vibration / high loading.
* Also if ANY !!! of the roller pins get loose getting into the rifles mechanics ... BAD GUGU can happen !!!
A proper flatened spring end w/ edge bevel riding on a hard or semi hard synthetic thrust washer works just fine
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The washers I'm talking about are merely a delrin spacer to go in front of the top hat! Yes I have read about experiments with actual bearings and didn't go well!
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There were talks about them years ago.
As I recall the basic take away was this ....
Torque rotation during compression and extension of spring has the thrust plates rotation over the roller pins not enough to really have free rotation as such a bearing is designed to move. A short shuffle back and forth creates more a skid and the wear plates trend to pit / crater due to this minimal motion and extreme vibration / high loading.
* Also if ANY !!! of the roller pins get loose getting into the rifles mechanics ... BAD GUGU can happen !!!
A proper flatened spring end w/ edge bevel riding on a hard or semi hard synthetic thrust washer works just fine
Roller pins? What am I missing here? Please help me understand!
Are we talking about a caged needle bearing like a tapered roller bearing in there?
I'm assuming by "bearing" we are talking about a thrust washer....
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