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Time for Unlimited Class in AAFTA?

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Tyler
"And you did insuinuate that AAFTA somehow treats WFTF shooters better than Hunter shooters. I'd love for you to expand on that one."

I forgot to answer your this question a few threads back

It maybe a preception issue from the way WFTF took off so quickly and extra fringes we have seen given to them. Hunter class have been given
a few accomodations over the years which mainly was like the 12x to 16x you have referenced. We had to fight like heck for that change and we wanted 24x which is about the minimum one can accurately range the longer targets at. We got 16x which is still not much better than the 12x.
I understand the WFTF is locked into world rules and that's a tough situation to maneuver around, and we usually don't hear a sound about it from our international shooters, so that says something for them..

On the other hand we talk about change in the Hunter class but that's about all we get is the freedom to gripe about it on a separate FT forum and sometimes it does sound like their is bickering. I agree with you that if we want change we need to be more united about it and have someone respond to the bog in a timely fashion. The past conversations about the unlimited class was changing so quickly that I was beginning to think we may have a few moles in the conversations. Everyone has a right to their own opinions but if we can't get behind a basic set of ideas as I stated a couple weeks ago"All we're doing is wasting bandwidth". Long Live our International Class!
 
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Tpatner412 said:
While I was typing, I had an idea! Tell me what you think about this for a class. I think it retains a better balance and challenge than a lot of what I see suggested:
1) All Hunter aids are allowed
2) Any magnification scope is allowed
3) No clicking
4) 12 FPE max power output
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Sounds good but the output power IMO
Tho who shoot woods courses don't have the WIND issues those of us in the more western states deal with.
One of this discussions most outspoken contributors ( who's not shot WFTF FT for 3 years ) has said many times that he won't even participate in west coast matches due the winds being near impossible to dope and deal with ... That says a lot about east & west being as if on different continents !
What suits the style and course conditions varies so greatly across this country it's not surprising what so ever that WE as American FT shooters scattered coast to coast are never going to agree.

As as stated before like it or not ... The base for AAFTA is anchored in the East and shot far more in the woods than the rest of the country as you move westerly.

* So as a rebuttal to Tylers above question.

1) all hunter aids ... You can use a bumm bag already, so Bumm & sticks or Seat & sticks & Big class ... Very unlimited like ( Except power )
2) Big glass .. Great !
3) No clicking I don't see as an issue ... Holdover works just fine !!
4) 12 fpe ... There is the problem ... and a huge WHY FOR there are so few shooting WFTF out west and likely in general across the country.


For those who think shooting 12 fpe makes you a better shooter or if successful enough worth the bragging rights ... Likely does to a point.
But then again your doping subtle wind changes and modest winds+ its all falls apart for most 12 fpe shooters.

But when folks who we all know or read reports about ( Who are Skilled Shooters ) come out west and deal with open spaces and wind like they have never experienced before ... generally have not done well at all. If shooting at 12 fpe your really handicapped !!

It's a different world in Big open spaces and switchy winds where, harness's, hooks or hamsters, thigh rests, jackets or slings pay minimal dividends.


Point all along has been ... GIVE FOLKS THE OPPORTUNITY TO MIX & MATCH BY PERSONAL CHOICE ANY GEAR AFFORDED OTHER CLASSES :cool:

Doing so has no effect on the other established classes and the only Burn is that to ones ego if out shot for a high score by an individual with preconceived advantage ... Who, if shot in a different class than said person/s with a bruised ego DOES NOT MATTER !!! It's not your class so get over it.
 
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Just shot a 2 day match down at Roz's place "The Good Ole Boys" and Invicta and WFTF and Open class were very well represented. Hunter class only had a few shooters! Seems like in this area Open class is doing just fine.

PXL_20221009_180935160.jpg
 
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Open / WFTF shooter and Hunter PCP shooter bickering again. This started as basically the hunter class wanting a unlimited class that was ignored in 2018. Mike N, Honestly You have so many irons in the fire that I am surprised you waste you energy argueing against the people that want a new class. I mentioned to Tyler that I felt like we had a few moles in this game and I'm sorry to say I think you are one of them.

Scott S, Scott H, Wayne......Tyler, laid out what we had to do to get consideration from the bog.
1. Agree on what the rules would be. Take a poll if necessary.
2. Submit them to the Bog for tentative approval.

No guarantees, but that's the right way to do it.

Lets get united if we feel we are a majority on something. Ignore the outside noise that just keeps us off track.

If we can't do this then we might as well forget about a 2023 Unlimited Class but, we could possibly request an increase in Hunter class scope power. From all this energy we at least should get something.
Bill Day
 
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thomasair said:
When someone makes up stuff out of thin air to support their position….that’s called BS. You know people can actually look up the GPs that competitors have participated in and what class they shot?

I guess you didn’t….or you wouldn’t have made up such a blatant lie. Sad

Mike
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HA !!! ... o'my gawd what a arrogant individual you have shown yourself to be.
I can't stop chucking on the smoke screen your trying to sell here.
As a Manufacturer .. may want to learn from the past that when folks that have something to gain or loose, they are best to remain silent and let those followers follow and those seeing threw the smoke take there own path.

If you think your slyly disguised cheap shots at the class of Hunter and those who have excelled at it have some weight on the context of this thread, would like to think you would be mistaken. The Views of a few verbal individuals who have balls enough to speak up does not make a majority. We are both in that fray.

We will OBVIOUSLY never agree on said subject, but your continued slander of what & who is in the AAFTA history books as fact and the reason for may never be acknowledged by the core group within the AAFTA that feels everyone else is an outsider playing a different game.
 
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dayjd said:
Open / WFTF shooter and Hunter PCP shooter bickering again. This started as basically the hunter class wanting a unlimited class that was ignored in 2018. Mike N, Honestly You have so many irons in the fire that I am surprised you waste you energy argueing against the people that want a new class. I mentioned to Tyler that I felt like we had a few moles in this game and I'm sorry to say I think you are one of them.

Bill Day
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Lets not mince or mistake hidden words here ... We're understanding to it's true definition as Trolling
 
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Kdog said:
Just shot a 2 day match down at Roz's place "The Good Ole Boys" and Invicta and WFTF and Open class were very well represented. Hunter class only had a few shooters! Seems like in this area Open class is doing just fine.

View attachment 296328
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Keith, Open class has always been big at the GOB it is actually down about 50% from what it use to be. Hunter attendance is on the low end but it has rarely been that popular in Tennessee. The Piston gun class looks positive if it represents Open Piston but it appears multiple piston shooters that shot this class also shot another class and based on the low scores it might of been a one day event. The one name I am sadly missing is Ross Sumpter. I sure hope he is all right.
Ross has been National Champion of this class so many times that it is more likely in honor of him I'm thinking.
It was a good turn out and it looks like from this end that fun was had by all. Wish I could of made it!
Bill Day
 
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dayjd said:
Scott S, Scott H, Wayne......Tyler, laid out what we had to do to get consideration from the bog.
1. Agree on what the rules would be. Take a poll if necessary.
2. Submit them to the Bog for tentative approval.

No guarantees, but that's the right way to do it.

Bill Day
Click to expand...
When is this going to happen and who is going to step forward to spearhead it?

Forums are great places for discussing equipment, advertising matches, giving match results, ...

They are not good for discussing rules. With the anonymity of sitting behind a keyboard, things are said that would not be said face to face in most instances. Discussions start out cordial and often end up nasty.

Identify folks that want an unlimited class and arrange a zoom meeting or similar to create a proposal for AAFTA. Tyler has suggested this many times and yet this discussion carries on and is getting toxic.

Someone step out and get a positive process started.

Tim
 
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dayjd said:
Keith, Open class has always been big at the GOB it is actually down about 50% from what it use to be. Hunter attendance is on the low end but it has rarely been that popular in Tennessee. The Piston gun class looks positive if it represents Open Piston but it appears multiple piston shooters that shot this class also shot another class and based on the low scores it might of been a one day event. The one name I am sadly missing is Ross Sumpter. I sure hope he is all right.
Ross has been National Champion of this class so many times that it is more likely in honor of him I'm thinking.
It was a good turn out and it looks like from this end that fun was had by all. Wish I could of made it!
Bill Day
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Beer Thief, I got your message on Ros. Glad to hear he is still kicking well. I use to Love hearing Cliff Smith and him talking about one of Cliff's best friends (GH) may be rest in piece ;) Tried to e-mail you back but my e-mail app would not let me reply to you. Stan, Thanks or getting back to me.
Bill Day
 
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dayjd said:
Beer Thief, I got your message on Ros. Glad to hear he is still kicking well. I use to Love hearing Cliff Smith and him talking about one of Cliff's best friends (GH) may be rest in piece ;) Tried to e-mail you back but my e-mail app would not let me reply to you. Stan, Thanks or getting back to me.
Bill Day
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Keith W, by the way great shooting down at the GOB!
 
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K said:
Dumb question maybe. Are we proposing a new class within the Hunter Division? Or a new Division?

K
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I saw the poll and also had a similar question to yours.

TOO MANY CLASSES ALREADY!!!

We should just put everybody in their own class and not keep score. At the end of the match, every shooter gets a cute little blue ribbon and a pat on the back for doing such an awesome job.
 
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