• Please consider adding your "Event" to the Calendar located on our Home page!

Time for Unlimited Class in AAFTA?

Jump to latest Follow Reply
thomasair said:
Cole…you’ve just set yourself up to be called arrogant. Haha
Click to expand...
I thought the same as I was typing that up. I focused on making factual statements and not exaggerated boasting.

Not the first time in these last few weeks that I was questioned about whether or not I should get to have an opinion about field target.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Franklink said:
Unfortunately, this conversation has been driven by selfish desires versus what's best for field target as a whole.

And the whole thing has been wonderful insight into WHY we have so many classes for a sport where probably 75% of all matches that occur have less than 20 participants. WFTF (PCP or piston), Unlimited (PCP or piston and currently available in certain clubs), Open (PCP or piston), Hunter (PCP or Piston) works out to 8 different classes. It's absurd. And the currently biggest class is fighting for a further break resulting in another class. So, 9? classes for an average # of participants that is probably around 12-18? at most monthly matches and monthly matches make up the bulk of field target shooting opportunities for most of us. Even take out the piston vs PCP thing and we're still talking 5 classes (WFTF, Unlimited, Open, Hunter, and Hunter 80X).

Little blue participation ribbons for all!!!
Click to expand...
That's a bit harsh and not well reasoned in my opinion.

There is also a big picture to the number of classes, in that they are used to calculate the AAFTA Grand Prix scores, so a competitor of one or two in a class at a local GP is really competing against ALL others in the nation in that class for the Grand Prix national title.

That is a big difference in my opinion.

Wayne
 
Upvote 0
Wayne,

My suggestion/opinion has been to let the Hunter guys have their unlimited scope power. But I feel that further dividing up an already small pool of participants isn't the way to go about that. It detracts from field target events actually being competitions and also further complicates an already overly complicated set of rules and divisions. I've been in the difficult position of trying to explain all the classes and equipment restrictions to shooters at their first match, as you surely have been as well. I distinctly remember having the thought during those discussions that the current state of field target class divisions is utterly asinine.

If unlimited scope power is the cure-all for what doesn't ail the already most popular class of field target, then are the Hunter class shooters willing to be lumped into the same class as everyone else? In other words, if Hunter class shooters want the same scope that Open and WFTF get to use, are they also willing to compete against guys using a harness or a shooting jacket or a bumbag or a knee riser? The answer seems to be no. Which is.....interesting. Cuz that equates to a "let us use some of what you use, but we don't want to compete against you if you're using the other assists that are allowed in your class." Seems.....self-serving.

I did not touch on grand prix scoring or structure. The number of guys that show up for regular montly ft matches is small, the number of guys actively participating in the gp series is even smaller. Like always, I'm giving suggestions based on what I feel would be best for the majority, not myself.
 
Upvote 0
thomasair said:
In my opinion….the Grand Prix national title is mostly meaningless.

Those looking for a bona fide title need to meet their closest competitors face to face at the same venue and see how that shakes out. Trying to make meaningful comparisons between shooters attending different matches is nonsense.
Click to expand...
I totally agree that a "head to head" contest at the same time... at the same venue is the best way to answer the question of who is best on that day.

AAFTA can only do so much to make a game that works for the most people possible.

I guess AAFTA could require that all the top GP contenders attend the National Championships to decide the real champ... but that is not the rule now.

The way it's done now is a measure of sorts and it does motivate folks to attend the local GPs... that was the main goal of the BOG at the time and I think it still is.

Wayne
 
  • Like
Reactions: Centercut
Upvote 0
The cure for what doesn’t ail the already most popular class….

That’s priceless

Wayne,

Im gonna go find my competitors and sit down on the same course. I’ve won a couple GPs and I probably was the best shooter in one instance and was certainly not in the other based on head to head competition. It’s probably a false title just as often as it is genuine.

Don’t see an easy way to fix that.
 
Upvote 0
Franklink said:
Wayne,

My suggestion/opinion has been to let the Hunter guys have their unlimited scope power. But I feel that further dividing up an already small pool of participants isn't the way to go about that. It detracts from field target events actually being competitions and also further complicates an already overly complicated set of rules and divisions. I've been in the difficult position of trying to explain all the classes and equipment restrictions to shooters at their first match, as you surely have been as well. I distinctly remember having the thought during those discussions that the current state of field target class divisions is utterly asinine.

If unlimited scope power is the cure-all for what doesn't ail the already most popular class of field target, then are the Hunter class shooters willing to be lumped into the same class as everyone else? In other words, if Hunter class shooters want the same scope that Open and WFTF get to use, are they also willing to compete against guys using a harness or a shooting jacket or a bumbag or a knee riser? The answer seems to be no. Which is.....interesting. Cuz that equates to a "let us use some of what you use, but we don't want to compete against you if you're using the other assists that are allowed in your class." Seems.....self-serving.

I did not touch on grand prix scoring or structure. The number of guys that show up for regular montly ft matches is small, the number of guys actively participating in the gp series is even smaller. Like always, I'm giving suggestions based on what I feel would be best for the majority, not myself.
Click to expand...
Yes, I can see that... I understand.

But, this thread is about a new Grand Prix class and that's a bigger picture.

None of us like giving or receiving awards to a winner of one in a class of one at a local GP... not really in our hearts.. not any of us.. so I understand where you are coming from.

And as a match director, myself, having all those classes is a real pain in the ass for sure.

But, AAFTA has to look out at the big picture and see what might be best for ALL the clubs.

Hosting a GP/State Championships with only 12 competitors doesn't work for any club and some clubs can't draw enough shooters... say 20, to make the match work without that GP National game that AAFTA created.

So, as much as I hate all the classes for awards and scoring.. I'm glad to have them for drawing in enough to make my GP work.

You might not have that issue, so it's not been a consideration... I understand.

Wayne
 
Upvote 0
thomasair said:
Cole…you’ve just set yourself up to be called arrogant. Haha

Bill, this is an honest to goodness suggestion for you. Use some structure in your replies. I lose interest in your posts very quickly due to the single paragraph run on format you use. I usually don’t even make it to the end.
Click to expand...
o
Franklink said:
It's unfortunate that this "prove yourself before your opinion matters" mentality has cropped up more than once in all these discussions.....but if you want to play that too here we go......

I've participated in about 50 regular field target matches at 5 different venues and 16-18 extreme field target matches at 3 different venues.

My three most recent matches were:
  • The Arizona State FT match in Sept, where I shot the overall high score on Day 1, 55/56. I think the next highest overall score was a 52 or maybe a 53. The next highest score from someone in my class (Open) was a 49. I went 48/48 from sitting shots, 4/4 from kneeling, and 3/4 from offhand. This was a GP level event. I did not shoot on Sunday (religious reasons).
  • The Xtreme Field Target night match at Phoenix Rod and Gun club last week. I shot a 36/48. That put me at 5th out of 33 shooters. The high score there was a 39.
  • Extreme Field Target portion of EBR, also last week. I shot a 31/40. That put me at 3rd for Sportsman class and "in the money." The highest score from either class was a 34/40. Out of roughly 80 shooters (both classes) only 5 people scored higher than 31/40.
I also shot a 51/52 at a monthly field target match over in NM in May or June. The Troyer for that match was something like a 35.

I've cleaned (perfect score) at least 3 courses (maybe 1 or 2 more?) and had enough 1 or 2 miss matches that I can't remember the total there.

So, no, I've not get decades in the sport but I've been around it a little bit. At least enough to have an opinion and understand what's going on here.
Click to expand...

Mike, English was always my weakest class in school. How is my spelling doing? By the way there are a lot of people with ADD and if you have problems reading my posts then don't read them.


So Franklink, or Cole , which ever you prefer to be called. If what you say is true you do have an impressive record. I was thinking you were an older shooter from California named Frank that use to also shoot Archery competitions. I follow all the FT matches I can read about on the FT forums. Guess I just missed yours but I'm not exactly sure what your name is anyway. Seems you have a good amount of experience in ERB though. How many blue ribbons have you took home with all your talent?
Bill Day
 
Upvote 0
I was hoping this thread could be an exploration.... "trail balloon" of a new class... or maybe a consolidation of sorts

FOR THE GRAND PRIX SERIES..

That I feel is VERY important to helping the AAFTA clubs survive.

lots of good input of ideas.. and unfortunately emotions and egos can get involved.

Ok, let's take a big breath.

And get back to possible solutions I can write up for the BoG to consider at the Nationals this year.

Thanks
Wayne
 
Upvote 0
The latest "Balloon" I floated was no
thomasair said:
There is nothing to solve.

A couple guys wanting to shoot higher scores by removing challenges instead of overcoming them is not a problem for AAFTA to worry over.
Click to expand...
Yes, that's where we are now... I was asking if there has been any movement...

That's why after the 200+ replies we have so far, I proposed above no new classes, but the option within the existing Hunter class to give up 20 fpe for 12fpe in exchange for any power scope.

I've said that I think... and it's only my opinion... that the balance of the classes among the PCP division... is pretty good now, in as much as, any of the PCP classes could win the overall High score.

AAFTA has said in the past, and still as far I know, that we should not look at the overall score, but just the winners of each class.

But at the same time they reward the highest overall score with the only 100% with all scores, including the piston class as a percentage of that 100%

It's a very crude method, but at least it is consistent across the season.

I'm sure the BoG would review any proposals to improve it.

Wayne
 
Upvote 0
Yea I can see all these Hunter guys giving up their 20ft lb rifles....propose that if you want to piss off 99.9% of guys currently shooting Hunter. So they would have to buy new rifles and new scopes.

Like Mike has said there is no problem to fix....overcome your weekness or move on to another class and be challanged with a whole new bunch of challanges.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Greg5850
Upvote 0
14 pages and the poop show continues. If anybody wants to change something, get together with a group that believes the same and prepare a well thought out legitimate proposal and take it to the BOG. Or if you just like to bitch and talk, just keep adding to the pages of the poop show. All talk gets you nowhere, take action and impress us with what you did, otherwise type away and your ribbon is in the mail for the most posts.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: Centercut
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Resources
Menu