Time for Unlimited Class in AAFTA?

[Kdog]

The point is Frank, All classes are not equal and I agree with you that there should be only one class but all equipment is not equal. Maybe that is what this BS is all about. If we want to combined all classes together then the Open and WFTF class will need to learn to shoot off a bucket and bipod or combinding classes will never happen. Pull Hunter classes out of AFFTA and you'll be down to about half the participation you have now. The UK Hunter shooters broke away from the WFTF and have their own Org. I think the way our Hunter class rules work are much more appealing than what the UK has. I would hope that this would happen here in the U.S but it may be the only viable way to consider our class equal to the other AFFTA classes. The only thing we are really asking to do is be allowed the same scope power as the Open and WFTF or even maybe 24X would work for us. We are not asking for the world but just a little more of a level playing field. I encourage the Open and WFTF classes to turn their scopes down to 16x and notice if it makes any difference to their scores or take off their shooting jackets and see how many forced position shots they make. In most matches that advantage is what separates the Top Tier from the Bottom Tiers. They can Keep all the extra aids they are allowed and let us know how their scores look. I can hear them laughing now!

I encourage all Hunter class shooters to shoot just one match WFTF. Let's see how you do without the ole crutch and bucket. I'll even help you out and let you borrow one of my rifles. Let's see how your scores drop like the perverbial rock! Don't be discouraged though it will make you a better shooter....I promise you that!

 

[Scotchmo]

... If we want to combined all classes together then the Open and WFTF class will need to learn to shoot off a bucket and bipod…

Why do you say that? In AAFTA Hunter, no one is required to use a buckets and sticks. Same for a combined class.

 

[Franklink]

Seems there's some false assumptions bout everybody in Open. I shoot Open class and have never even tried on a shooting jacket, much less shot the positionals with one.

Hopefully won't be taken as a brag but as an example...

• I went 4/4 kneeling and 3/4 offhand at AZ State ft match in Sept.
• I went 3/4 offhand at XFT night match two weeks ago (standing bipod so not true offhand)
• I went 6/8 offhand at EFT EBR two weeks ago (again, standing bipod so not true offhand)
• This past Saturday I went 4/4 offhand and 3/4 kneeling at the Airgunners of AZ Founders Cup match.

No shooting jacket. It can be done.

 

[Franklink]

Why do you say that? In AAFTA Hunter, no one is required to use a buckets and sticks. Same for a combined class.

Yep. What I've been proposing all along is maybe so simple people can't wrap their heads around it?

In my suggestion of JUST ONE CLASS, everybody shoots from whatever position they want, as long as it is currently allowed in any class. Open guys can still shoot from their bumbag, Hunter guys can still shoot from their bucket. No scope limits for anybody. Clicking or holdover allowed for all. May the best man win. No enforced handicapping of any class due to X. And the high overall score is THE winner of the match that day because everybody shoots the same course. Pick your gear, practice up, and COMPETE.

And all these silly arguments about which class is harder or easier go away. Cuz if you think a bipod is more steady, then by golly, use a bipod! If you think a harness and bumbag is more steady, use that!

 

[K]

Yep. What I've been proposing all along is maybe so simple people can't wrap their heads around it?

In my suggestion of JUST ONE CLASS, everybody shoots from whatever position they want, as long as it is currently allowed in any class. Open guys can still shoot from their bumbag, Hunter guys can still shoot from their bucket. No scope limits for anybody. Clicking or holdover allowed for all. May the best man win. No enforced handicapping of any class due to X. And the high overall score is THE winner of the match that day because everybody shoots the same course. Pick your gear, practice up, and COMPETE.

And all these silly arguments about which class is harder or easier go away. Cuz if you think a bipod is more steady, then by golly, use a bipod! If you think a harness and bumbag is more steady, use that!

I'll admit that my mind just isn't big enough to grasp your simple straightforward proposal. LOL

 

[rob_g]

Wouldn't it be easier to get rid of any recognition for "High Overall Score" and just recognize the leaders of the individual divisions? Then the best shooters get recognized for only the class they shoot in and there's no whining about perceived advantage or disadvantage of shooting a particular class.

 

[Airgunoregon]

Wouldn't it be easier to get rid of any recognition for "High Overall Score" and just recognize the leaders of the individual divisions? Then the best shooters get recognized for only the class they shoot in and there's no whining about perceived advantage or disadvantage of shooting a particular class.

AAFTA supports and states your position... and requires that NO prize is given for the High Overall Score..

But at the same time, they run the AAFTA Grand Prix that some of us participate in. That game is scored from the Highest Overall Score. Match high score becomes 100% for that match. There is no 100% for each division/class.

So ALL competitors playing in the Grand Prix are trying their best to be the High Match Score or as close to it as possible, because all other scores are based on a percentage of that highest score for that match.

Maybe AAFTA needs a different system, but that's the WAY IT IS now.

Wayne

 

[Franklink]

I'll admit that my mind just isn't big enough to grasp your simple straightforward proposal. LOL

I said that because I keep getting responses to my comments like this.... "If we want to combined all classes together then the Open and WFTF class will need to learn to shoot off a bucket and bipod or combinding classes will never happen."

Uh why? Just let everybody shoot from their preferred position. It's not a hard concept.

 

[dayjd]

I encourage all Hunter class shooters to shoot just one match WFTF. Let's see how you do without the ole crutch and bucket. I'll even help you out and let you borrow one of my rifles. Let's see how your scores drop like the perverbial rock! Don't be discouraged though it will make you a better shooter....I promise you that!

There is no question in my mind that the WFTF class is the most difficult class to shoot just because of the 12 ft/lbs. Most hunters have trouble getting up and down from the ground including myself. Why would we want to just try it when we understand the difficulty? Right now as I have stated numerous times I plan on trying to shoot Open next year and doing some physical therapy this winter. If I fail in Open I will unlikely continue into WFTF for the 2024 worlds. At that point if I don't fall back into Hunter I will probably try something else that my body will allow.

 

[dayjd]

Why do you say that? In AAFTA Hunter, no one is required to use a buckets and sticks. Same for a combined class.

I guess I said that because many of us have a problem shooting from the ground and would likely not want to go that route. Didn't realize we could still take our Bucket and crutches! I could buy into that but don't think we are ready to go back to "Old" AFFTA. I understood the classes that replaced the old game witnessed some growth and for certain with the addition of the Hunter class in 2006. I do think that Hunter Piston and WFTF Piston pretty much sucked the life out of Open Piston about 6 or 7 years ago.

 

[Scotchmo]

...

So ALL competitors playing in the Grand Prix are trying their best to be the High Match Score or as close to it as possible, because all other scores are based on a percentage of that highest score for that match.
...

+1
That's how we get 100 GP points at a match. Be the overall high score shooter. And often times, you need at least one, two, or even three of those 100s to win the end of season GP award in your chosen Division. So yes, we do compare our scores to other Divisions, because they affect our GP points.

 

[steve123]

If we are concerned about FT dying off. I think the answer to attracting more shooters is to hold shoots on a regular basis. Our FT equipment is rather specific, and it is not cheap. Not everyone is willing to tie up a large sum of money in equipment that will be used a few times a year. Every shooting discipline I have shot over the years have not had seasons. Every time I have brought this up someone will say with our temperatures we can't shoot but a few months a year. I never have attempted to argue but if we are serious about our sport growing. I don't think continuing like we are will get us anywhere! If we wanted to shoot the summers we could! Put up a couple shades. and have water available. Start the shoot in the morning hours. We put a lot of energy into a couple big matches. But those won't draw many new shooters.

We in AZ can already go to at least one FT match a month but this requires travel up to Mormon lake in the summer. It's a pretty place, wonderful temps, and offers varied terrain.

Other than that would require someone else to take responsibility for mid summer matches down in the Phoenix area, hint, hint.

 

[dayjd]

I encourage all Hunter class shooters to shoot just one match WFTF. Let's see how you do without the ole crutch and bucket. I'll even help you out and let you borrow one of my rifles. Let's see how your scores drop like the perverbial rock! Don't be discouraged though it will make you a better shooter....I promise you that!

Keith, Of course starting a new class or a new method of shooting will have a learning curve. Who excells in their first class change?

 

[Centercut]

Keith, Of course starting a new class or a new method of shooting will have a learning curve. Who excells in their first class change?

I agree, in my limited experience. For example, I've seen WORLD CLASS WFTF shooters have a very hard time shooting Extreme Field Target from bucket and sticks their first few times...

 

[dayjd]

rob_g said:
Wouldn't it be easier to get rid of any recognition for "High Overall Score" and just recognize the leaders of the individual divisions? Then the best shooters get recognized for only the class they shoot in and there's no whining about perceived advantage or disadvantage of shooting a particular class.

Rob_G, just like the other sports most competitors don't shoot just for the exercise. They enjoy seeing the practice and equipment produce results. If we only gave one award to just the high shooter it wouldn't be long before his competition dwindles. If we have enough participation in each class there is nothing wrong going back 3 to 5 awards to give those shooters that excelled that day something to bring home. All sports do it and it helps keep people coming back. When it becomes too difficult that's when shooters drop out or first comers never come back. Years back 3-D IBO archery had many more classes than AFFTA FT. I 'm guessing we most likely had 12 to 18 classes. For instance, Freestyle Unlimted, and Limited, Bowhuter Unlimited and Limited, Bare bow, Traditional, Many of these classes had a womens and Jr. classes. With an average of 300 to 400 bow shooters shooting somewhere in the State of New Hampshire every Sat or Sunday more trophies were handed out than you could shake a stick at. Many have said that FT is not designed to host anymore than 120 shooters. Mainly because of real estate and working members in the club. People get burned out and everyone just enjoyed the shooting and not hanging around to clean up and pull life size 3-D animal targets. As far as whining goes that seems to be part of the games we play over here in the USA. You can find it about anywhere. In ending, Very few Matches if any offer a Match High Scorer. High score for their class earns them 1st place.

 

[tjmac]

AAFTA supports and states your position... and requires that NO prize is given for the High Overall Score..

But at the same time, they run the AAFTA Grand Prix that some of us participate in. That game is scored from the Highest Overall Score. Match high score becomes 100% for that match. There is no 100% for each division/class.

So ALL competitors playing in the Grand Prix are trying their best to be the High Match Score or as close to it as possible, because all other scores are based on a percentage of that highest score for that match.

Maybe AAFTA needs a different system, but that's the WAY IT IS now.

Wayne

Maybe that is the change you want. Have a 100% for each class. Are there not GP awards for each class?

Tim

 

[oldsparky]

We in AZ can already go to at least one FT match a month but this requires travel up to Mormon lake in the summer. It's a pretty place, wonderful temps, and offers varied terrain.

Other than that would require someone else to take responsibility for mid summer matches down in the Phoenix area, hint, hint.

I am not applying for a job. I work full time and am on call los of weekends. I was just stating a fact that regular club shoots would draw people.