Time for Unlimited Class in AAFTA?

[dayjd]

Wayne, Too much of a Level playing field I think. Might get rid of a few shooting jackets though or maybe not. Another thought, Why not give the Hunter class bonus points for the forced position shots. The Hunter class is the only class that can't use the straight jackets so why not give us 1.5 points for every forced position shot we put down. That would be a fair handicap I think. In other words if we drop two out of four off hand shots we get warded one extra point. I say forced positions (plurally) because have you ever seen an Open or WFTF shooter take off their shooting Jackets to face a kneeling shot without them. I have seen Hector Alfaro shoot the open class without a jacket and very impressively but never see one taken off to shoot them.

 

[Franklink]

If forced position shots are optional (can choose to instead shoot at a smaller kill zone using "normal" ft position, be it bucket, stool, or bumbag) we might as well eliminate them. VERY few people will choose to shoot standing or kneeling. Might still get the WFTFers to do it, just as practice for actual World's matches.

Personal example: as previously noted, I'm 39 and have no problems getting into kneeling or offhand position. BUT @ the AZ State match 9 or 10 days ago I went 4/4 on kneeling, 3/4 on offhand, and 48/48 on my bumbag/harnesss shots. From which position do you think I'd shoot if I was given a choice?

 

[L.Leon]

I use an attached bipod and a LRF to pest and hunt. Why can’t I do the same in HFT? The sport should have a division that reflects how many actually use their air rifles while hunting afield. A “run what ya brung” class, within reason of course. I would come out just to “knock down” targets. Would only be competing against the course, so wouldn’t turn in my score card. That kind of no pressure fun, I can relate too.

 

[thomasair]

I doubt anyone would care if you shot however you want if you aren’t turning in a score card.

Mike

 

[L.Leon]

I doubt anyone would care if you shot however you want if you aren’t turning in a score card.

Mike

Am hoping to do just that at a local match in November…

 

[thomasair]

The rules are already fair for each class. The problem is some guys want to win the imaginary “overall” award …so they demand more shooting aids. If people just worry about their own class….they will never be disadvantaged.

Mike

 

[Motorhead]

The rules are already fair for each class. The problem is some guys want to win the imaginary “overall” award …so they demand more shooting aids. If people just worry about their own class….they will never be disadvantaged.

Mike

That is just a silly statement ... Winning a class played by established class rules is the CAKE !! If you happen to do so in a class that has the most constraints, or unavailable tools afforded the other classes .... SWEET Frosting it is.
So if a class is established such as Free style that has more miens to find success .. THAT CLASS stands alone in the score shot and why the hell would those in other classes really care outside of Ego bruising for some score number that has no relitivity ... Honestly

Purists will always be true to there class & there is absolutely noting wrong with that. Issue we ALL face is growth and getting new folks into the game.

So long as the Trend stays "WE IN THE GAME" are whats important, this game will Live and DIE with our generation. Sad damn truth.

 

[thomasair]

It’s a generational problem. It’s not hard keeping the older people interested. Todays kids need to not keep score at soccer and tee ball games so nobody feels bad.

The only way to make the game more popular is to make it easier. It’s a hard game and not that many folks want to put in the effort required to be competitive. It is what it is. It’s not that much different than precision benchrest in that respect.

Remove the fpe and caliber limit and make the kill zones big enough that most people can hit them all. Make a few targets that can only be hit by luck and you will have successfully removed the difference between beginners and advanced shooters. It will be wildly popular because new shooters that put little into it can beat talented shooters regularly. The good shooters will eventually quit, but there are a million times more guys that that don’t want to put that much effort into it. FT will be reborn.

 

[Motorhead]

It’s a generational problem. It’s not hard keeping the older people interested. Todays kids need to not keep score at soccer and tee ball games so nobody feels bad.

The only way to make the game more popular is to make it easier. It’s a hard game and not that many folks want to put in the effort required to be competitive. It is what it is. It’s not that much different than precision benchrest in that respect.

Remove the fpe and caliber limit and make the kill zones big enough that most people can hit them all. Make a few targets that can only be hit by luck and you will have successfully removed the difference between beginners and advanced shooters. It will be wildly popular because new shooters that put little into it can beat talented shooters regularly. The good shooters will eventually quit, but there are a million times more guys that that don’t want to put that much effort into it. FT will be reborn.

Yes ... the SKY IS FALLING
Yes ... Drama queens get attention
Yes ... A current generation of "Your Special" even tho there generally not.

No ... Shooting aids don't make better shooters
No ... More power is not more accurate at the distances we shoot FT
No ... Old guys will quit because they got too old to play as they once did

We can BOTH agree that FT is Not Easy .. it can be made more comfortable in trying, apparatus adjusted to fit more body types or abilities, Talent will nearly always rise to the top in any sport.
If it's all about being "On Top" then keeping competitor numbers low is a good strategy

 

[thomasair]

Guys that shoot at clubs that have allowed unlimited or freestyle have already told everyone that it didn’t do much for bringing in new participants. Nobody wants to hear that, though.

You’ll likely just get people leaving the other classes to shoot unlimited.

More power is directly related to wind drift. If it wasn’t….we wouldn’t even have a 20fpe class. There would be no reason for it. Saying it isn’t more accurate is just a cute way of pretending that it’s not a huge benefit.

 

[dayjd]

Guys that shoot at clubs that have allowed unlimited or freestyle have already told everyone that it didn’t do much for bringing in new participants. Nobody wants to hear that, though.

You’ll likely just get people leaving the other classes to shoot unlimited.

More power is directly related to wind drift. If it wasn’t….we wouldn’t even have a 20fpe class. There would be no reason for it. Saying it isn’t more accurate is just a cute way of pretending that it’s not a huge benefit.

Mike, your second short sentence is a key factor "You’ll likely just get people leaving the other classes to shoot unlimited." There could be a lot of truth to that but, wouldn't it be better to try another class that might be more friendly to their disabilities then just have them move on to something they can do with less pain? If we can keep those that love the game in it longer that would be a victory by it self. No one likes a game that requires pain to play, Unfortunately, that is a way of life for many of us over 60. Regardless, of whatever becomes of this or not I already have my path to the 2024 Worlds worked out in my head. Over the next two years my health allowing I will work my butt of to get there whether a new class is available or not for the new class will not make it there.

 

[thomasair]

Bill….you already get to shoot in the same position in the Hunter class as you would shoot in Unlimited. I don’t believe that your 16x scope causes you any physical pain.

 

[dayjd]

Bill….you already get to shoot in the same position in the Hunter class as you would shoot in Unlimited. I don’t believe that your 16x scope causes you any physical pain.

Mike, a new unlimited class is not all about Bill Day but in my class the 16x scope handicaps all of us compared to the scope you use to shoot and the shooting jacket you chose to wear. IMHO!

 

[thomasair]

I guess it handicaps you from getting the high overall. It is not handicapping you in any way from winning your class.

PS….I don’t wear a coat for sitting shots and I’m not gonna drag it around for offhand and kneeling anymore when I start shooting FT again.

 

[beerthief]

all this talk of easing the rules reminds me of when Little League decided to award "participation ribbons to both teams " so the loser did not feel bad , and everybody took a ribbon home .

 

[dayjd]

Mike, you have your laptop sitting on top of your CNC? At least LL if my memory serves me right we all played the same game with the same rules. The ribbons or awards at the end of the season were as you note were for participation. Must of made the whole team feel good with not leaving any one out.

 

[beerthief]

Mike, you have your laptop sitting on top of your CNC? At least LL if my memory serves me right we all played the same game with the same rules. The ribbons or awards at the end of the season were as you note were for participation. Must of made the whole team feel good with not leaving any one out.

that is just it , no winning no losing , no life lesson learned .

 

[thomasair]

Bill, I really don’t understand what you mean. It sounds like you are mixing things that were said up a bit.

Mike

 

[dayjd]

Bill, I really don’t understand what you mean. It sounds like you are mixing things that were said up a bit.

Mike

Mike, Beer Thief threw me a spit ball and I swung at it. I thought it was you that made the LL reference. My apologies!
The unlimited class would allow those leaving the game because of disabilities an opportunity to maybe get a few extra seasons in the game. That is the only reason I would before it. Yes, I would love to shoot a 45x scope and see what it would do for me. Maybe throw that shooting jacket on like that one I purchased from you four or five years ago and see how it improved my offhand. Seeing I haven't shot kneeling in years maybe the "jacket" would improve my kneeling scores shooting it offhand too. Like I said earlier I'm determined to shoot the open class next year but it probably won't be pretty getting up and down but I will get the opportunity I want. Then I will have first hand experience which class is the easiest to shoot. I have no doubts that WFTF is the most difficult of them all and not sure I will ever get that far up the ladder but time will tell.

 

[thomasair]

Aah….no worries.