Time to combine Open and Hunter?

[humbled.ag]

Another means to separate score is to add divisions based on skill. You can have an A, B, and C class within each class.(getting complicated again? Movement up or down in the divisions will be based on average Yearly score. This allows beginners to win their division, while top shots get to compete in theirs.

This format brings the opportunity to create local leagues and legitimate seasons to Field Target.

It also eases the equipment race as you will be competing with shooters of your skill level. So if you want to dominate C with a UTG scope and R9 it's likely possible. Don't forget that the top scores move you up in divisions, low scores move you down.

Just another way to skin a cat, but not in Ohio.

 

[Franklink]

Sounds to me like we are talking about a problem that doesn't even exist yet.
How many clubs have shooters clearing the course each week? No matter the class.
I see some high scores typically but I don't see everyone shooting 58-60 consistently.
You guys do remember field target shooters are an extremely small group right? Really small.
Lets address an issue if one was to actually arise, until then, lets have fun shooting whatever class makes sense to us.

It's been a problem for years here in AZ. Matches are cleaned on a regular basis. I can think of multiple people right now that have cleaned courses in Hunter. Van T has cleaned both of the last two monthly matches of the Airgunner of AZ club. Both months the other high scores were down just a shot or two from perfect.

 

[ocedummy]

AS an old guy that still has a desire to shoot I have been reluctant to shoot much because of age and health. I don't miss many in hunter except for long ones due to errors in ranging, and the forced lanes are awful due to bad knees and a fake hip therefore i start every match at -10 because of the forced lanes. Just like a lot of shooters in Hunter I bought a Sightron 10-50 and focused at 16X hoping it would help a bunch with the long shots, it helps over a $300 scope, but not that much. If we were allowed unlimited scope power and clicking i would jump back in just to try something new, kind of like getting a new girlfriend, like i did in 1960ish. Looking at the scores it appears that the open guys would not dominate over the Hunters that much. In Florida and Louisiana where i could shoot, the Hunters reign in the high score area until some really good WFTF shows up. Also, I know old open guys that are having trouble getting up and down not counting trying to screw themselves into a ball to steady themselves that would love to shoot Hunter with high mags and clicking.

 

[Franklink]

AS an old guy that still has a desire to shoot I have been reluctant to shoot much because of age and health. I don't miss many in hunter except for long ones due to errors in ranging, and the forced lanes are awful due to bad knees and a fake hip therefore i start every match at -10 because of the forced lanes. Just like a lot of shooters in Hunter I bought a Sightron 10-50 and focused at 16X hoping it would help a bunch with the long shots, it helps over a $300 scope, but not that much. If we were allowed unlimited scope power and clicking i would jump back in just to try something new, kind of like getting a new girlfriend, like i did in 1960ish. Looking at the scores it appears that the open guys would not dominate over the Hunters that much. In Florida and Louisiana where i could shoot, the Hunters reign in the high score area until some really good WFTF shows up. Also, I know old open guys that are having trouble getting up and down not counting trying to screw themselves into a ball to steady themselves that would love to shoot Hunter with high mags and clicking.

Yes sir! My sentiments exactly.

 

[Franklink]

The discussion has gone off on a couple tangents at this point.

I think there's a need for a true beginner class. And fine, call it Sportsman. I suspect there are some that would shoot in that class just for fun, even though they own much higher grade equipment.

I think there's a need for harder courses. And yeah, the beginner class is going to have low scores if the courses are made harder. Same as happens most of the time with current springer shooters.

To bring it back around, Id still like to see bumbag/harness and bucket/sticks shooting in the same class, using whatever scope they want to. Keeping Hunter as-is isn't slowing down the equipment race, so own it/embrace it and remove the scope restrictions.

If a true beginner class was started at the same time as the Hunter/Open merger, the self-masochists that either find it fun to use simple equipment and/or don't want to spend big to run the equipment race would have a place to shoot.

 

[Bramezy]

It's been a problem for years here in AZ. Matches are cleaned on a regular basis. I can think of multiple people right now that have cleaned courses in Hunter. Van T has cleaned both of the last two monthly matches of the Airgunner of AZ club. Both months the other high scores were down just a shot or two from perfect.

But is that one person that good or is it their equipment that is giving them some type of edge over everyone else?

 

[Franklink]

But is that one person that good or is it their equipment that is giving them some type of edge over everyone else?

Multiple people shoot perfect scores at our monthly matches. It's not the same guy all the time.

 

[Bramezy]

Just another way to skin a cat, but not in Ohio.

??????

 

[Bramezy]

Multiple people shoot perfect scores at our monthly matches. It's not the same guy all the time.

Got it.

 

[Franklink]

Multiple people have shot clean scores. It's not usually multiple perfect scores every month.

Typical Troyer factor matches too. 28-32 probably.

 

[Bramezy]

All I know is I love shooting FT and any changes should be tested before being considered.
Each MD can change the rules of their matches how they see fit. AAFTA only controls GPs.
Have fun with it.

 

[Bramezy]

Multiple people have shot clean scores. It's not usually multiple perfect scores every month.

Typical Troyer factor matches too. 28-32 probably.

Ive never seen a 28 troyer around me lol. Always 31+ but thats just a guideline. I thought the Yellow course at PAC was very easy as compared to the blue course and scores showed that but both had a similar troyer. A whole other topic I suppose.

 

[FastPellet212]

In my opinion we should just combine all the classes and shoot 12 FPE. Allow shooting sticks, shooting vests, any magnification. Just make it a total free for all when it comes to equipment, but must be shooting at 12 FPE. Makes more sense then having all these other classes with low shooter turn out.

Piston shooters would have their own class.

 

[Franklink]

Ive never seen a 28 troyer around me lol. Always 31+ but thats just a guideline. I thought the Yellow course at PAC was very easy as compared to the blue course and scores showed that but both had a similar troyer. A whole other topic I suppose.

I'm digging....looks like July was a 29.6T. not accounting for any wind, and the match reports mentions a thunderstorm that came through with hail, etc.

Here's the scores from that match.
Pretty typical.

Trying to find the match report from the August match where Van cleaned it again but looks like the club went to a new website and the August match report slot has the same match report as July (glitch).

 

[AirGoon]

Shoot open or unlimited then, right?

I would if there were others in the division to compete against. There very rarely are in my corner of the country.

 

[Jezter6]

You know you're free to drop the 80x scope and butt hook and just shoot Hunter? Making Hunter Even easier with more gear and telling wftf, piston, and everyone else to suck it up because you'll need a harder course says maybe you're the issue, not literally every other class?

If Hunter already clears courses with 16x, why would giving them more gear pr0n be a good thing?

And then hampering newbies so they get worse scores and telling them to practice more or buy better kit, prob said by guys who have the free time and money to do so, is rich.

Literally nothing about this idea improves the game for the majority, or encourages participation by a younger crowd and only encourages the smallest class to make it easier for them at the expense of every other group.

 

[Frank in Fairfield]

Me?
I am competition for no one but this I do say:
I have hunted big game on three continents with my Husqvarna .30-06.
I do not have drop data.
I do not use a rangefinder.
I do not use a bucket or bipod.
I leave the scope on full magnification and shoot.
Sometimes standing, offhand but if there is time, prone.

I would like Hunter Class to be just that.
Shoot from whatever position you wish without mechanical assistance or seating support of any kin…
Seated, standing, kneeling, prone..
12X, 16X, whatever..without ranging.

 

[drsquall]

People with blinders on never gets old

 

[Solo1]

Me?
I am competition for no one but this I do say:
I have hunted big game on three continents with my Husqvarna .30-06.
I do not have drop data.
I do not use a rangefinder.
I do not use a bucket or bipod.
I leave the scope on full magnification and shoot.
Sometimes standing, offhand but if there is time, prone.

I would like Hunter Class to be just that.
Shoot from whatever position you wish without mechanical assistance or seating support of any kin…
Seated, standing, kneeling, prone..
12X, 16X, whatever..without ranging.

And your 50 or less i guess. The problem with this is most of the shooters are over 60 and need bucket and styx to be able to shoot the whole course. Also you probably don’t shoot your 06 past 500 yds and know where to aim on your quary for those distances and at a much larger kill zone than ft

 

[Franklink]

You know you're free to drop the 80x scope and butt hook and just shoot Hunter? Making Hunter Even easier with more gear and telling wftf, piston, and everyone else to suck it up because you'll need a harder course says maybe you're the issue, not literally every other class?

If Hunter already clears courses with 16x, why would giving them more gear pr0n be a good thing?

And then hampering newbies so they get worse scores and telling them to practice more or buy better kit, prob said by guys who have the free time and money to do so, is rich.

Literally nothing about this idea improves the game for the majority, or encourages participation by a younger crowd and only encourages the smallest class to make it easier for them at the expense of every other group.

I've already been shooting Hunter. And I'm one of few who actually uses my ft gun for more than field target. This was taken during a little prairie dog shooting last month.

You keep mentioning newbies but newbies are like unicorns. More often than not our ft matches are the same group of guys that always come. Occasionally we'll have someone come check it out for the first time but it's not a frequent occurrence. When that does happen we drop everything and focus on helping them have the best possible experience. It goes two ways with the rare newbies. We never see them again, or they buy equipment and practice and become regulars.

I see no purpose in designing courses for our imaginary friends, the newcomers. Last month we did have a rare new guy show up. He'd reached out ahead of time so I new he was coming. I loaded up my truck with quite a few guns and lots of spinners and paper targets. I set up an entire 10-100yard range of steel and paper for that guy to shoot on, to give him a chance to see what the guns are capable of in a non-competitive situation. He loved it. THAT is where we hook the newbies, not during a competition.

Smallest class? Hunter is the biggest class.

A newby with newby equipment doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell of being competitive in the current Hunter class, or any other current class. There isn't a beginner class in field target with the current rule set.