Time to combine Open and Hunter?

[beerthief]

Me?
I am competition for no one but this I do say:
I have hunted big game on three continents with my Husqvarna .30-06.
I do not have drop data.
I do not use a rangefinder.
I do not use a bucket or bipod.
I leave the scope on full magnification and shoot.
Sometimes standing, offhand but if there is time, prone.

I would like Hunter Class to be just that.
Shoot from whatever position you wish without mechanical assistance or seating support of any kin…
Seated, standing, kneeling, prone..
12X, 16X, whatever..without ranging.

as a non-combatant , i think the same way . I do shoot FT , but at home and i just drop the targets walking out , no idea what the range is . and i use 16 power ,. I stand off hand , sit on a bum bag ,sit on the ground kneel and prone and bucket and sticks . i would try a harness but they are too much $ just to try . I did make a makeshift one just to get the idea , it was ok .

(IF i had a say in this i would vote to keep the 16 power and no turrets (yes to parallax )so every body has the same scope power .)

 

[AirNGasman]

How many people would come back to shoot again after not hitting anything?

Anyone incapable of hitting anything would not come back, nor should they.

Not a problem; since they don't enter FT matches due to a survival instinct called competition anxiety.

.

 

[beerthief]

Why does anyone need a beginner class ? just shoot the class you want to be in and keep getting better till you win . Seeing the few guys at the top is incentive to get better . like any other sport .

 

[Bramezy]

But again you guys do remember this only applies to grand prix right?? AAFTA only governs the actual GP not your local matches.
I say if a shooter needs a little something extra maybe talk
To your MD about it. Until then, how many of these 10 people discussing in here even shoot GP? Those are the people to poll but even then, it is fine as is.
I agree with the above, the newbie is a unicorn. I was new last year.
Not sure why i wanted to try it but i bought a gun before i even knew what FT was. Some very nice people were very welcoming and generous with their gear and allowed me to use it for my first two matches. I was hooked from there on.
I have seen 2 new people show up to our matches in the 2 years now that have come back.

 

[AirNGasman]

we enjoy the game by knocking down targets. making 42T standard courses and hampering the newbie class even more isn't fixing anything, and isn't beginner friendly, or likely to get people to want to come and shoot with a lower end sportster rifle that isnt grouping gnat's ass at 54 yards.

Wrong.

1) Except my latest Extreme Pistol FT courses, there is no such thing as 42T courses. Even AAFTA National Championships top out about 35T.

2) Hampering the newbie class with Sportsman IS fixing anything; that being newbies being utterly overwhelmed at the almost universal $3000+ rigs in Hunter division.

3) Sportster rifles need not shoot gnat's ass at 54 yards. 3/4" groups at 55 yards will knock down 1.5" kill-zones every time.... if the shooter puts those 3/4" groups in the right place.

4) Almost any good PCP rifle can average 3/4" groups at 55 yards if the shooter knows what he's doing. Those that don't, don't enter FT competitions.

5) I've finished in the top third of Hunter division shooting a 1963 Sheridan multi-pump topped with a similar-vintage, 7/8"-tube 2-7X scope...

And I didn't even use a scope-level, oversize side-wheel, shooting jacket, shooting glove, shooting boots, or girdle!

.

 

[drsquall]

But again you guys do remember this only applies to grand prix right?? AAFTA only governs the actual GP not your local matches.
I say if a shooter needs a little something extra maybe talk
To your MD about it. Until then, how many of these 10 people discussing in here even shoot GP? Those are the people to poll but even then, it is fine as is.
I agree with the above, the newbie is a unicorn. I was new last year.
Not sure why i wanted to try it but i bought a gun before i even knew what FT was. Some very nice people were very welcoming and generous with their gear and allowed me to use it for my first two matches. I was hooked from there on.
I have seen 2 new people show up to our matches in the 2 years now that have come back.

The closer gp for me is Texas and the others are way to far for me to go to. I'm not retired and don't have the luxury to take a week off to go to one from work. The vacation I do have I use for family vacations and time off to hunt. I am fortunate though to have 3 FT matches a month with the farthest 5hrs away and the others 1 to 2 hrs away. And I can shoot unlimited which when I go is what I want to do

 

[Motorhead]

You misinterpreted that.
Current Hunter is absolutely NOT a beginner friendly class these days.

I will need to disagree with this for a couple reason ...

#1 not all who shoot FT do so outside of Club poops & grins and giggles type matches, as this is where most get taught how to play the game and only getting better at the FT game if they care to get better ? A large sub group really don't care and shoot for fun having a day with there buddies !!

#2 If or when one who shoots FT mostly as a club for fun events then going to other venues ( such as GP's, state matches or bigger draw type events ) will they feel the pressure is on to shoot well.

In support of your viewpoint ...

Absolutely if a FT shooter goes no where else but to high profile shoots ( GP's, State, Nationals etc .. ) and is not a seasoned shooter or spent time to really learn the game, then a BIG YES as this small fish will be swimming with many Field Target Sharks !! and class really don't matter either, so it's not a hunter class thing honestly.

In the SVFTC ranks we're near 45 individuals that rotate in & out over the course of a years worth of club matches. Within this @45 shooters we have at best perhaps about 15 who travel to away matches .. So yes playing in the home sand lot for the majority is what they wish to do & as such we let them play the game at what ever level there comfortable.

 

[Franklink]

I will need to disagree with this for a couple reason ...

#1 not all who shoot FT do so outside of Club poops & grins and giggles type matches, as this is where most get taught how to play the game and only getting better at the FT game if they care to get better ? A large sub group really don't care and shoot for fun having a day with there buddies !!

#2 If or when one who shoots FT mostly as a club for fun events then going to other venues ( such as GP's, state matches or bigger draw type events ) will they feel the pressure is on to shoot well.

In support of your viewpoint ...

Absolutely if a FT shooter goes no where else but to high profile shoots ( GP's, State, Nationals etc .. ) and is not a seasoned shooter or spent time to really learn the game, then a BIG YES as this small fish will be swimming with many Field Target Sharks !! and class really don't matter either, so it's not a hunter class thing honestly.

In the SVFTC ranks we're near 45 individuals that rotate in & out over the course of a years worth of club matches. Within this @45 shooters we have at best perhaps about 15 who travel to away matches .. So yes playing in the home sand lot for the majority is what they wish to do & as such we let them play the game at what ever level there comfortable.

I meant equipment-wise.
New guy shows up with a Marauder and a sub $200 scope (or worse, a Cabela's springer and a 4x scope) super excited and thinking he's got a sweet rig. Only to be sorely disappointed when he sees the couple thousand dollar rigs others are shooting in the supposed beginner class of Hunter.

Attitude wise, yes, beginners are welcomed with open arms to any and all classes of field target.

 

[Motorhead]

At club events we see it often and those shooting said "Type" gear begin the process of learning and watching

 

[Franklink]

At club events we see it often and those shooting said "Type" gear begin the process of learning and watching

And budgeting/saving for equipment upgrades so they can be competitive.

 

[Frank in Fairfield]

And your 50 or less i guess. The problem with this is most of the shooters are over 60 and need bucket and styx to be able to shoot the whole course. Also you probably don’t shoot your 06 past 500 yds and know where to aim on your quary for those distances and at a much larger kill zone than ft

Nope…..79 and partially handicapped…

 

[Franklink]

I sent out texts to 17 field target friends that havent and probably wont comment in this discussion.

The question wasn't about combining Open and Hunter but rather which of them would like to keep the 16x limit for Hunter or allowing unlimited magnification and dialing the turret in Hunter.

So far 8 have responded...
4 would prefer no scope restrictions in Hunter class.
2 would prefer to keep the 16x
2 responded essentially neutrally

I'll update the tally if/when the others respond.

Alright, I've heard back from 15/17 at this point. These are all guys that actually shoot field target.
8 would prefer no scope restrictions in Hunter class
5 would prefer to keep it at 16x
2 are neutral

 

[Bramezy]

Alright, I've heard back from 15/17 at this point. These are all guys that actually shoot field target.
8 would prefer no scope restrictions in Hunter class
5 would prefer to keep it at 16x
2 are neutral

How many shoot GPs?

 

[Franklink]

How many shoot GPs?

Yeah, all but one of the 17 have shot in GPs, and the one is relatively new to field target. Two of the 17 that I asked were at PA Cup just this past weekend.

 

[Franklink]

I was actually surprised at the five that said to keep it at 16x. I didn't figure any Hunter class shooter would look that gift horse in the mouth.

 

[scotton]

Welp, I finally got caught up on this thread. It took me a while because I had to keep checking the date on the post, since the original post and replies look very similar to something I suggested a few months ago. I've still got the pitch marks on my butt that haven't healed.

Officially, I would be in favor of combining open and hunter. I would also be in favor of keep the divisions separate and letting hunter class have full use of the scope. I would also be in favor of a "Base" class, where the gun and scope have to be less than $1,000 MSRP.

But we can also keep things the way they are. Classes, rules and equipment aren't keeping people from shooting field target. Field target is keeping people from shooting field target. It's slow, a little boring, and brings out the argumentative nature in old men. That's why it's hard to convince people under 40 to try it, or to keep coming back. The best way to get younger people to shoot field target is to wait a few years until they become older people. So if our target for new shooters is older people with some disposable income, we should make changes that would encourage those people to shoot FT.

On the other hand, if we have decided to stop trying to change things to encourage new shooters to come out, we should change things for the current FT shooters. Unless they don't want things to change, in which case we should leave things alone. In business, they say that it is much easier and cheaper to retain employees than it is to hire new employees. Maybe the way to grow FT is to first stop shrinking it.

I've made suggestions in the past towards that end, and the usual gatekeepers are happy to tell me that they don't want things to change. Like a beaten dog, I still show up to FT matches but I don't look forward to them as much as I used to and I often look for reasons to do something else on match days. I think I'm still too young to truly appreciate FT, maybe it will still be here when I get a few years older.

 

[Bramezy]

I meant equipment-wise.
New guy shows up with a Marauder and a sub $200 scope (or worse, a Cabela's springer and a 4x scope) super excited and thinking he's got a sweet rig. Only to be sorely disappointed when he sees the couple thousand dollar rigs others are shooting in the supposed beginner class of Hunter.

Attitude wise, yes, beginners are welcomed with open arms to any and all classes of field target.

I shoot a marauder and a $600 scope and tied for 2nd at the Burning River GP. If I could go back and fix one thing I know I could have shot better. Its not always the arrow but the indian that matters. I was in a shoot off between a red wolf and a thomas. Nerves got me not the gun. I love that gun actually.

 

[Bramezy]

Welp, I finally got caught up on this thread. It took me a while because I had to keep checking the date on the post, since the original post and replies look very similar to something I suggested a few months ago. I've still got the pitch marks on my butt that haven't healed.

Officially, I would be in favor of combining open and hunter. I would also be in favor of keep the divisions separate and letting hunter class have full use of the scope. I would also be in favor of a "Base" class, where the gun and scope have to be less than $1,000 MSRP.

But we can also keep things the way they are. Classes, rules and equipment aren't keeping people from shooting field target. Field target is keeping people from shooting field target. It's slow, a little boring, and brings out the argumentative nature in old men. That's why it's hard to convince people under 40 to try it, or to keep coming back. The best way to get younger people to shoot field target is to wait a few years until they become older people. So if our target for new shooters is older people with some disposable income, we should make changes that would encourage those people to shoot FT.

On the other hand, if we have decided to stop trying to change things to encourage new shooters to come out, we should change things for the current FT shooters. Unless they don't want things to change, in which case we should leave things alone. In business, they say that it is much easier and cheaper to retain employees than it is to hire new employees. Maybe the way to grow FT is to first stop shrinking it.

I've made suggestions in the past towards that end, and the usual gatekeepers are happy to tell me that they don't want things to change. Like a beaten dog, I still show up to FT matches but I don't look forward to them as much as I used to and I often look for reasons to do something else on match days. I think I'm still too young to truly appreciate FT, maybe it will still be here when I get a few years older.

The speed kills me. I see other ways to allow it to run faster but everyone is so tunnel visioned.
A match can be shot in about 60min but takes 2.5hrs
I agree with what your saying. Id like to see some MD test different approaches and maybe change things up a bit to see the impact. See if they can make it a more enjoyable experience for all.
That should be the goal.
How do you make FT better for all?

I too have thought about a “base class” similar to NrL shooting but there arent enough people that would qualify for it at any match ive seen.

 

[drsquall]

The speed kills me. I see other ways to allow it to run faster but everyone is so tunnel visioned.
A match can be shot in about 60min but takes 2.5hrs
I agree with what your saying. Id like to see some MD test different approaches and maybe change things up a bit to see the impact. See if they can make it a more enjoyable experience for all.
That should be the goal.
How do you make FT better for all?

I too have thought about a “base class” similar to NrL shooting but there arent enough people that would qualify for it at any match ive seen.

I would love a base class but I've shot PRSNRL 22 for years and it's huge you're right doesn't have a tenth of the people that shoot PRS. I go to a monthly PRS match and there is 30 to 50 shooters. I go to a monthly field target match And if you break 20 it's a great day. With any shooting sport equipment will get you so much but it's always been the nut pulling the trigger in my PRS shooting I started out production class and was fine with that for a while. But a day came that I realized this gun and the scope I've done the best I could with it and I had to upgrade to open class so I wouldn't have the price limit.
My biggest dislike with field target is it is boringly slow but I come from PRS where two minutes is long as you get for up to 12 shots with positional changes. So I naturally shoot faster when I sit down in the field target match. From the time I sit till I am done it's maybe 2 minutes.

 

[Bramezy]

I would love a base class but I've shot PRSNRL 22 for years and it's huge you're right doesn't have a tent of the people that shoot PRS. I go to a monthly PRS match and there is 30 to 50 shooters. I go to a monthly field target match And if you break 20 it's a great day. With any shooting sport equipment will get you so much but it's always been the nut pulling the trigger pull in my PRS shooting I started out production class and was fine with that for a while. But a day came that I realized this gun and the scope I've done the best I could with it and I had to upgrade to open class so I wouldn't have the price limit.
My biggest dislike with field target is it is boringly slow but I come from PRS where two minutes is long as you get for up to 12 shots with positional changes. So I naturally shoot faster when I sit down in the field target match. From the time I sit till I am done it's maybe 2 minutes.

Same here. I get comments all the time. Its a new sport for me, how fast can i shoot a lane lol. I did my last lane of PAC in 70sec and I know I could have been faster but that just means more time sitting around waiting to shoot again.