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Time to combine Open and Hunter?

I have been following this thread (and others like it) and i keep coming to the same place with all the discussion(s)…is this just a lot of solutions looking for a problem? I have not really seen a clear definition of an existential problem yet. I have seen complaints about things that some shooters don’t like about the current state of FT, i.e. scope magnification limits, ranging with parallax, clicking vs holdover, bumbag vs bucket, supported position vs unsupported offhand, and the list goes on, and on, and on…Complaints are not necessarily problems. If we change rules every time someone complains, then we might as well have, as Ron said, a separate category for every individual.





Someone might say (has said) FT is dying, citing that participation is dropping at their local matches. That might be a problem, if it is true on a wide scale. Show me the stats that are more than just from a club that might not be doing a good job of promoting their matches. Many of the MD’s that have weighed in to this, and other, threads have cited steady and even growing participation. So is that really a problem that needs solving? Scott C. hit the nail on the head, IMO, when he said, “field target is keeping people from shooting field target. It’s slow, a little boring, and brings out the argumentative nature in old men.” And yet, I read a boatload of announcements in this forum of events all over the country (except in NM:(). People, mostly older, are still shooting FT, in spite of all their griping. And I also see a healthy number of young(ish) people in the game. I am not sure that the slow nature of FT is an existential problem to solve. Granted, it has not taken off like, say, pickleball (another sport frequently played by the older generations). But that is a more stimulation-rich game…and, if LeBron James invested in FT like he did in pickleball, perhaps it might. On the other hand, FT has been around for a much longer time than pickleball, showing that it is not just a passing fad. We’ll see how long pickleball sticks around.





I am mostly in agreement with those that say this is not an issue needing a change. I have yet to attend a match where the MD refused to let a shooter play in the class of their choosing…instead they say, “Go for it! Have a good time! You won’t be vying for the big prizes, but you will have FUN!” I am also completely unopposed to any changes that the powers that be might make. After all, this is just a game, and participation is completely voluntary.

Whoa whoa whoa! Back this up.

The griping is as integral a part of field target as pellets.

America might run on Dunkin. But field target runs on griping.
 
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I do say convincing anyone of anything on the web is very similar too ....
 
It sounds like aafta and aarp are interchangeable. Lol

Didn't you get the memo in the last TPS report?

It's now called AARPFTA, and the 12 foot pound class is now WTF?.


BTW, Lumbergh is not only my hero, but would be a great match director!

.
 
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NO PARTICIPATION TROPHIES!

PARTICIPATION TROPHIES = WFTF piston + WFTF PCP
+ Unlimited/Freestyle + Hunter PCP + Hunter Piston + Open PCP + Open Piston

And those seven classes could be represented at the typical 15-25 attendee monthly match. 😬😬😬

As has been stated a couple times here by others, one class for < 12fpe and one class for < 20fpe would greatly streamline the mess. And that would make Open and Hunter the same class.
 
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PARTICIPATION TROPHIES = WFTF piston + WFTF PCP
+ Unlimited/Freestyle + Hunter PCP + Hunter Piston + Open PCP + Open Piston

And those seven classes could be represented at the typical 15-25 attendee monthly match. 😬😬😬

As has been stated a couple times here by others, one class for < 12fpe and one class for < 20fpe would greatly streamline the mess. And that would make Open and Hunter the same class.
Just two classes? I love it. Sign me up.
 
Just like when Fred Bear started archery field target.
Bow, String, Arrow, Fingers.
Now in archery field target you have about 37 different classes.
Then there is 3D archery field target.

For me, FT is something to do.
If I want to shoot at 24X, 32X at the club matches, who cares?
DITTO for a laser rangefinder.
I do not participate in forced positions.
I do not care if the RSO records my score on the blackboard or not.
I have went to one GP.
If I go again (not bloody likely) I will play by the rules established by the MD.
 
Well, I love it like it is, but if I were starting from scratch I’d probably do something like this:
Two classes: WFTF and AFT (American Field Target), with each split into pcp and piston divisions.
WFTF would be unchanged as it has to align with other countries. And it’s awesome just as it is.
In AFT, shoot on a stool with sticks, or on the ground in a harness, 20 fpe max. Prefer to click vs holdover? Knock yourself out. I would limit scope power to 24x maybe even 20x. Since both classes would be shooting the same targets and courses that are primarily designed for WFTF limiting scope power in AFT would help offset the 20fpe power advantage AFT has. Without mag limits in AFT I could foresee a lot more shooters with their 20 fpe lasers and 40x scopes log jamming at the top of the results board, separated only by positionals.
If you are shooting AFT you have 3 minutes to shoot a 4 shot lane. I see no reason why a 60 shot GP course should take more than 2.5-3 hours to complete.
 
Why not integrate everything into one class? And make it a world wide thing. Probably would be the best thing for the sport. Other shooting sports tend to be ran that way besides archery.

Of all the ideas that have been floated, I think dropping everybody to under 12 fpe would be the hardest to sell.
 
I think you're right I'm new to field target or was new I guess I should be correct since I don't actually participate Much anymore. Like Ron and I discussed and he said in his conversation he said Hunter class was originally intended for the beginner so they wouldn't feel overwhelmed by how much work they've got to do to get better. Basically not worrying about getting your butt kicked so bad. By putting those limitations it allows for someone to come in and participate with a marauder and UTG like Hepler did and some people still do not feel ashamed that they only got half and not the 50s the other people. But now in Hunter class as a new shooter who shows up and see guys running red wolves and crowns impacts raws with a S3 on top make some scratch their head
Guilty as charged - but the equipment doesn’t make a difference. If ya got the funds to buy a Ferrari do so but its unlikely you can handle the skills required to drive it.
 
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by making it harder for people with budget guns to play the game? eliminating range marks and having to hope you eye ranged ok?

i'm sure that will work out REAL well then the 80x scopers are clearing courses and the KZs get smaller and smaller. no wonder new people wouldn't want to come play.

its always the people who have all the equipment that want to force everyone else to spend more money to be competitive, instead of giving up some of their fancy gear.
Attitude-new people should expect to suck and see the potential to improve. While natural to compare ourselves against others, the truth is, we should be striving to compete against ourselves via bettering our own game… mental, physical and as practical or possible our desired equipment.
 
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The very first time I shot field target it was in Concord, CA just before 911.
Me and my trusty R1 with 2-7X Beeman 66r shot a 9/40.
Scoring then was 0-1-2..
The next time I shot field target was at the same location and with the same rifle, shooting with none other than the Motörhead In 2012.
Score 7/40
I bought a Marauder which Scott tuned.
I bought many others.
Since then I am right around 50%……even with the R1😂
 
I've already been shooting Hunter. And I'm one of few who actually uses my ft gun for more than field target. This was taken during a little prairie dog shooting last month.
View attachment 496925View attachment 496924

You keep mentioning newbies but newbies are like unicorns. More often than not our ft matches are the same group of guys that always come. Occasionally we'll have someone come check it out for the first time but it's not a frequent occurrence. When that does happen we drop everything and focus on helping them have the best possible experience. It goes two ways with the rare newbies. We never see them again, or they buy equipment and practice and become regulars.

I see no purpose in designing courses for our imaginary friends, the newcomers. Last month we did have a rare new guy show up. He'd reached out ahead of time so I new he was coming. I loaded up my truck with quite a few guns and lots of spinners and paper targets. I set up an entire 10-100yard range of steel and paper for that guy to shoot on, to give him a chance to see what the guns are capable of in a non-competitive situation. He loved it. THAT is where we hook the newbies, not during a competition.

Smallest class? Hunter is the biggest class.

A newby with newby equipment doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell of being competitive in the current Hunter class, or any other current class. There isn't a beginner class in field target with the current rule set.
Currently my entire focus is on recruiting new shooters who In many cases haven’t shot an air rifle since age 12. To accomplish this, I buy lots of equipment for them to try, this includes targets and creating a place and time for them to try it. I spend more time teaching new shooters and helping them setup their equipment than practicing myself. But that’s my joy factor because I am more passionate about field target as a social function and growing it as a sport than I am about besting other shooters. You can’t grow a sport if you don’t have participation and you won’t have participation unless you create opportunity. Even though I have lots of great equipment I remind every new shooter that even the cheapest gun will outshoot their current ability without the time spent practicing.
Just last week my newest shooter got to shoot his first match using quality equipment and got to meet two world class shooters. Was he inspired ? You bet! Not by his score or the equipment people were using but rather by the people he met.
 
Maybe you guys don’t remember being new but I do.

I think the reason I started FT at all was because of Hunter class and the fact that a suitable rifle is a rifle I already had. Scope of reasonable magnification, pcp or springer, .177 to .22. I was willing to go shoot poorly for a while because at least I knew my rig was going to work and all of my missed shots came from preparation or technique. The preparation required came down to 1) buy or borrow sticks 2) buy or borrow a bucket seat or bum bag 3) take your best 16x scope add a parallax wheel, and work out ranging. That’s still a lot to ask someone to prep just to try it out. And your rifle is still perfectly versatile for plinking, field carry, varmint control - its original non-FT purpose. Pretty much any equipment or setup that is specific to FT is an obstacle to new shooters.

If HFT allowed mega scopes, click adjustment, and shooting jackets it would have turned me away. There has to be a reasonable progression from average joe airguns to fully built and dedicated FT rigs if you want to grow the sport.

As it stands two years later I now have a couple of FT specific rigs with oversized scopes and while I’m still shooting Hunter I’m going to try Open. They are expensive and bulky but I don’t think they are any advantage over a well sorted ordinary HFT setup. I wouldn’t be here if Hunter wasn’t achievable with the gear I already owned.
 
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PARTICIPATION TROPHIES = WFTF piston + WFTF PCP
+ Unlimited/Freestyle + Hunter PCP + Hunter Piston + Open PCP + Open Piston

And those seven classes could be represented at the typical 15-25 attendee monthly match. 😬😬😬

As has been stated a couple times here by others, one class for < 12fpe and one class for < 20fpe would greatly streamline the mess. And that would make Open and Hunter the same class.
Amen