Tinkering with the Bandit. Any pistol shooting tips?

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

 

I'm posting mainly because my accuracy is suffering. The gun likes anything I put in it. The problem I'm having is with hammer inertia. When the sear disengages the gun rocks back a bit as the hammer starts its movement forward. I'm trying to think if there's a way to counter this inertia? Maybe my hold is just wrong? Or is this just something that's dealt with using practice, consistency, and follow thru? I don't do much shooting with pistols, so that's part of the reason I got this cheap gun to practice target shooting with and hopefully learn some new things. The scope is just there to get a better feel for exactly how accurate it is, and how well it shot what. I'm waiting for a mini holo sight to show up in the post.



So far, I've done a few mods. I had to cut the grip because #1 it didnt fit my hand, and #2 the receiver went in crooked. Also leveled the mounting face for the LDC on the front of the barrel/sight (just has cap on it now) pellets were clipping baffles it was so poorly aligned. I've polished the barrel, port polished the internals, and installed a custom huma reg. setup. There is no plenum, and the valve assembly has been cut back to increase air cylinder volume as well as bored so a plenum was not needed. I'm seeing almost 50 shots in the 630fps range. 210bar down to 70 bar. At 130 bar this gun was putting out close to 18 fpe in .177  That seemed to be the sweet spot

Mod Edit: moved to Air Pistols forum

 

[marflow]

can you tell me if the trigger has 2 adjustment screw visible when the trigger guard is removed

and if the sear spring is in the middle of the sear or the front

if in the middle it has the same setup as the a Chaser and you can improve the trigger assembly function and feel to almost match grade almost

I have posted several times on my Chaser trigger work but I never seemed to get much feedback so I will not post it again here

the main problem with the triggers is they are sloppy but easy to assembly at the factory and even what they call a 2 stage trigger it is not

so that what I have spring in the middle of the sear, like the Chaser in the front like I guess the 700

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

can you tell me if the trigger has 2 adjustment screw visible when the trigger guard is removed

and if the sear spring is in the middle of the sear or the front

if in the middle it has the same setup as the a Chaser and you can improve the trigger assembly function and feel to almost match grade almost

I have posted several times on my Chaser trigger work but I never seemed to get much feedback so I will not post it again here

the main problem with the triggers is they are sloppy but easy to assembly at the factory and even what they call a 2 stage trigger it is not

so that what I have spring in the middle of the sear, like the Chaser in the front like I guess the 700

Yes, the trigger does have two screws. Which I have adjusted to a comfortable level (my safety no longer works as a result  so I didn't make it horribly light or short) Safety relies on hitting the trigger guard to stop trigger travel.

The spring is right under where the back of the trigger pivots onto the sear, so I guess the middle. The trigger was sloppily welded in place. But it actually works very well. I'd have expected it to be worlds worse.

No one seems to care about any of the recent Diana guns. Probably cause not many people have them, and the ones that do likely dont care to try and improve them at all. But for the price... There's nothing else on the market like this pistol. Rotary mag, came with a moderator that actually works quite well (after re-arranging the baffles).

 

[lenweber2]

I rplaced the trigger return spring with a cut down Bic pen spring, now the trigger is much lighter. .22 here and at 25 yards I get three mags at about an inch with a red dot.

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

Good deal. I may try something like that. But the pull is already down to about 2lbs 

 

[boscoebrea]

I have a .22 Bandit,it is stock and at 22yds all pellets touch,it is accurate enough and the trigger is fine for me.

Follow thru is always important. This is one pistol that to me needs nothing....I use the single shot tray ,hand pump it,also get about 24 shots before too down on power

It is not my most accurate pistol,butt the most fun to shot........so far.

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

I have a .22 Bandit,it is stock and at 22yds all pellets touch,it is accurate enough and the trigger is fine for me.

Follow thru is always important. This is one pistol that to me needs nothing....I use the single shot tray ,hand pump it,also get about 24 shots before too down on power

It is not my most accurate pistol,butt the most fun to shot........so far.

So, youre a much better shot than I  And thanks for the tip, I'll work on it. I could tell with the scope on, it wanted to shoot right where it was aimed. Out of the box I was real impressed. I think the only thing it NEEDED was for me to level the front of the barrel where the moderator butts up against it so it was straight and the pellets didnt clip the inside of it.

I cant leave well enough alone, though 

 

[marflow]

so that is the same trigger system used in the Chaser

the front trigger screw does nothing more then push the sear down and the farther it is screwed in the farther the sear lift and shortens the hammer engagement

the rear screw can be made to be what trips the sear but the 3mm in length one is too short, 6mm screw with and 2mm bearing ball will give you some adjustment

if you do nothing with the pins which just fall out, a trigger stop is a great over travel fix and put between the front and back trigger screw area 

the sear is hard as hell and needs to be torched and drilled for a 3mm x 6 to 8mm in length grub screw

the pins are way under sized I ended up using 2.5 mm drill ends but they have to be hand fit and with some RC aluminum shims the trigger was no longer sloppy

so with a light sear spring and all of the hand fitting and such the trigger movement is light and down to 1.5mm in total movement

the one thing about the trigger setup, you can just do the work on the table, twisting the screws and watching and feel what is happens

but these are just ideas but they are proven ideas

 

[Vetmx]

Funny how nobody has given you any input on your original question. Things went off topic concerning the trigger. I have a PP800. Its just a regulated bandit. I have the gun dialed in with a LW barrel, great shot count and velocity. I use a hammer bounce device. My hammer is in free flight for probably a half inch but I still notice the hammer inertia thing you asked about. The gun just doesn't have a clean snap like a well tuned PCP. I have been debating about making a lighter hammer for it and seeing if that might help. You have to understand that SPA (the true maker of the gun), uses the same hammer in their CO2 and PCP guns. I think they even use the same spring. My theory is this. They were using that hammer and spring to crack the valve when you had it aired up to 3,000psi unregulated. Now you have your reg set at maybe 70 or 80bar? Way too much hammer, spring or both. I will address this when I get time.

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

Funny how nobody has given you any input on your original question. Things went off topic concerning the trigger. I have a PP800. Its just a regulated bandit. I have the gun dialed in with a LW barrel, great shot count and velocity. I use a hammer bounce device. My hammer is in free flight for probably a half inch but I still notice the hammer inertia thing you asked about. The gun just doesn't have a clean snap like a well tuned PCP. I have been debating about making a lighter hammer for it and seeing if that might help. You have to understand that SPA (the true maker of the gun), uses the same hammer in their CO2 and PCP guns. I think they even use the same spring. My theory is this. They were using that hammer and spring to crack the valve when you had it aired up to 3,000psi unregulated. Now you have your reg set at maybe 70 or 80bar? Way too much hammer, spring or both. I will address this when I get time.

Beat you to it you are right about the hammer being not only too heavy, but also too stiff. I fine tuned my hammer spring as well as heavily fluted the hammer to reduce weight. I may fiddle with it more, but I feel it's been dialed back considerably in both regards. Of course that did help. I'm starting to think its just my hold that needs work. 



Any more details on the hammer device (similar to daystates?) or the barrel? I have to be honest, the factory barrel on mine leaves little if any room for improvement. Especially considering it shoot well with 8 different kinds of pellets I have on hand 

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

so that is the same trigger system used in the Chaser

the front trigger screw does nothing more then push the sear down and the farther it is screwed in the farther the sear lift and shortens the hammer engagement

the rear screw can be made to be what trips the sear but the 3mm in length one is too short, 6mm screw with and 2mm bearing ball will give you some adjustment

if you do nothing with the pins which just fall out, a trigger stop is a great over travel fix and put between the front and back trigger screw area 

the sear is hard as hell and needs to be torched and drilled for a 3mm x 6 to 8mm in length grub screw

the pins are way under sized I ended up using 2.5 mm drill ends but they have to be hand fit and with some RC aluminum shims the trigger was no longer sloppy

so with a light sear spring and all of the hand fitting and such the trigger movement is light and down to 1.5mm in total movement

the one thing about the trigger setup, you can just do the work on the table, twisting the screws and watching and feel what is happens

but these are just ideas but they are proven ideas

Thanks for the tips! Some of those things I have done and though of, but some I had not considered the screw with a bearing does sound like a great idea. I'll have to fiddle with it some more! 

 

[kentek314]

Kentek Newbie here again. Most of what you are speaking of is way over my head for now.

A question though on the grip. You guys keep mentioning the Diana Chaser. Any chance that the Chaser grip could be modified to fit the Bandit? As it only costs $70 one could afford to buy a Chaser just for the grip.

I am amazed how ugly the Bandit grip is. There is nothing to love there. Got to change it eventually.

kaw

 

[marflow]

maybe on the grip

http://www.canadashootingsupply.ca/cp2-converter-kit.html

 

[marflow]

Vetmx the question was Any pistol shooting tips and I think an improved a trigger would be a shooting tip

he already states that he doesn't like the grips and new grip that fit your hand better would be a tip

use a cut down Stormride barrel could help by adding length

or just plain practice but when you have the best trigger on any rifle or pistol your shooting should improve, so I gave him that input

so was it off in a rabbit hole other then the original thread, I don't think so but if I stayed off the original thread in your view my bad, so what

 

[Vetmx]

I am just curious how much lighter you can make the hammer before things start to go the other way and you have to up the hammer spring to get things back. There didn’t appear to be much excessive material to work with on the hammer the last time I looked at it. 

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

Kentek Newbie here again. Most of what you are speaking of is way over my head for now.

A question though on the grip. You guys keep mentioning the Diana Chaser. Any chance that the Chaser grip could be modified to fit the Bandit? As it only costs $70 one could afford to buy a Chaser just for the grip.

I am amazed how ugly the Bandit grip is. There is nothing to love there. Got to change it eventually.

kaw

I've seen some people that have converted, though I know it takes some modification to do, but what modification I'm not sure.



I don't mind the wood grip... But the size and proportions are kind of ludicrous. Good if you want to cut it down to fit your hang because it's huge. So, I'm still working on that. Mine has had huge amounts of wood removed from the exterior, though It's hard to tell without having an unmodified one for comparison.

I am just curious how much lighter you can make the hammer before things start to go the other way and you have to up the hammer spring to get things back. There didn’t appear to be much excessive material to work with on the hammer the last time I looked at it.

I wish I had figures, but I honestly just winged it. The hammer felt substantially heavy. So, I removed some material with little or no changes, so I removed even more. No weights before or after as I don't have a scale. I should get one, though. My hammer sping is cut nearly in half and has been stretched a bit. With 4 tiny washers as shims. I have a delrin shim approximately the same size as the 4 washers that I can add if I bump the regulator to 130bar. Takes the gun from 9 fpe up to almost 18 

 

[Imold]

The Bandit is my 1st air pistol and so far I like it, took of my BSA scope off it today and put a UTG Accushot 2-7x32 on it and now I need to re-zero it in. Also bought a barrel band for it but still need to put that on, figured it would stiffen up the barrel, I also want to move the fill probe to the side position rather then straight down, just need to empty the air and loosen the gauge hopefully then turn the probe.

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

Hm, my fill probe always lines up canted when the fill valve is tightened all the way. The paint on my gauge wore off a bit from handling, so I removed all of it (thus the brass look)

Does either of those scopes have good eye relief? I just got a trijicon RMR replica for now. Should be here friday, and I'll see how that goes.

 

[Vetmx]

I have a UTG 2-7 on my Webley Alecto. It’s a pistol scope and the eye relief is spot on for a pistol. It also has its parallax set at 35yrds instead of 50yrds like most pistol scopes. Big benefit for airgunners. Buy one, you won’t regret it.

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

That does sound like it might be in order  I'll give the mini holo sight a try, and will likely order that scope, too 

Still working on getting the grip right. Havn't got to shoot it much lately. Thought I was finished, but had to take it down on the bottom right side of the grip (bottom of palm was being cramped) This is the opposite side where I took out a lot for my thumb, and made a small perch for my other thumb.