Other Top Heavy and Tippy

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cavedweller

cavedweller

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Dec 5, 2018
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Mobile, Alabama, United States
In my quest to find the perfectly balanced, lightweight air gun and after going through 20 high end Airguns, I’ve come to a personal conclusion - I prefer an air bottle style rifle to an air tube style. This is becoming more and more obvious by the remaining guns in my collection AND which ones get used the most AND my HFT match scores.

Why?

Weight distribution on an air bottle style rifle tends to keep the center of gravity lower, thus the rifle is less tippy once scoped.

I’ve never thought about how to measure tippyness, and this is only a problem when your horizontal holding axis is canted, but it is most definitely a thing.

I love me a sweet air tube rig; up until I’m standing or kneeling and that’s when the struggle begins as body mechanics and hold becomes absolutely critical. That said I also noticed this tippyness when using my Primos Trigger sticks as I had to readjust the head rest back to vertical much more often.

Anyone else notice this?
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cavedweller said:
In my quest to find the perfectly balanced, lightweight air gun and after going through 20 high end Airguns, I’ve come to a personal conclusion - I prefer an air bottle style rifle to an air tube style. This is becoming more and more obvious by the remaining guns in my collection AND which ones get used the most AND my HFT match scores.

Why?

Weight distribution on an air bottle style rifle tends to keep the center of gravity lower, thus the rifle is less tippy once scoped.

I’ve never thought about how to measure tippyness, and this is only a problem when your horizontal holding axis is canted, but it is most definitely a thing.

I love me a sweet air tube rig; up until I’m standing or kneeling and that’s when the struggle begins as body mechanics and hold becomes absolutely critical. That said I also noticed this tippyness when using my Primos Trigger sticks as I had to readjust the head rest back to vertical much more often.

Anyone else notice this?
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Hello @cavedweller

I only benchrest shoot now days but I do find the Bottle does fit more secure in the Lyman Bag that I use up front.

ThomasT
 
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I certainly noticed it in my Marauder. It was already front-heavy due to the steel reservoir. I should have used lower rings. In the end, she got iron sights and that is about the best you can do with that gun IMO.
My aluminum tubed Dreamline tactical (not a compact) is much less tippy and front-heavy, but that's a ~6lb gun - maybe 8 lbs scoped. I don't have any bottled guns to compare it to, but I'd imagine the COB may shift back toward the shooter some. That's probably not a bad thing.
 
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cavedweller said:
Yeah… but when you have a plate in your neck - ya gotta do what ya gotta do 🙃
My Wolverine is my best fit to date.
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I wonder if you could mount a shorter ring option on the AA510 you would be able to reduce the COG on the Aeron chassis so that it can compete with the beautiful Saphire....
The Ghost is, by design, a lost cause to lower the COG
 
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SDstephan said:
I wonder if you could mount a shorter ring option on the AA510 you would be able to reduce the COG on the Aeron chassis so that it can compete with the beautiful Saphire....
The Ghost is, by design, a lost cause to lower the COG
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loss of some range of motion / side flexion and flexibility on the right side of my neck makes creating the correct ergonomics a tricky thing.
The true solution "for me" rests in a airgun with an smaller air bottle to put weight distribution lower AND more reward towards the shoulder, so that two things will occur, more weight at the shoulder and a lower center of gravity.... the switch last weekend to the Ghost Carbine, increased my HFT score 30%
I use the particular eaglevision rings and 20 MOA pic adapter you see on the Ghost because both the Ghost and the Alphawolf are my most difficult rigs to get behind the scope correctly (and a pain in the neck)!
MY Alphawolf's setup is just like my Ghost but the bigger / longer air bottle takes away the advantage i get with the Ghost putting more weight at the shoulder.
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cavedweller said:
loss of some range of motion / flexibility on the right side of my neck makes creating the correct ergonomics a tricky thing. The true solution for me rests in a airgun with an airbottle the switch last weekend to the ghost increased my HFT score 30%
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I’ve got a plate in my neck too, and a ton of arthritis in there as well. My guns are set up funny to compensate.
 
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No plates in my neck but I prefer a more upright head position when I'm on the scope. Prevents a sore neck later.

High rings aren't necessarily a bad thing. Makes the 50-55 yard holdovers/turret adjustments minimal. Of course it makes the 10-20 yard more critical, and especially makes the 10, 11 and 12 yard determination important. But that's the distance scopes range by focus best anyway.
 
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beerthief said:
maybe a counter weight could help COG ?
Do you need that height for your neck or to clear the Mag ? If the mag then a SST for loading ?
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@beerthief - i've been thinking about how to create counter weights on my tube guns
but just as difficult as the center of gravity thing is finding / getting a proper and consistent eye box. Thankfully some talented shooters at the AAFTA National event, showed me how to lower the butt as far as possible and then cant it outward to allow my eye to get behind the scope more evenly. Next i ditched my progressive lenses and re-did ALL my parallax wheels / scope ranging markings. All these changes together are definitely for the better. Yet i noticed that my bottle guns were easier to control in a forced position and didn't cant in the sticks as easily. I am all about getting the scope as low as possible... really helps with those close in holdovers. The picture posted show Aeron CZ's counter weight idea... not quite enough to stop the canting/tipping. Work in progress. Really appreciate the ideas from everyone... that's why we are here.

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I filled a foldable front grip with lead and attached it to the front/undermount pic rail a month or two ago. I was just experimenting. It did indeed work like a keel to keep the whole rig more upright in the shooting sticks, and since it folds up it was Hunter class legal. But I didn't like the extra weight so took it off. So, the "keel" type weight was minimal benefit not worth the weight, at least to me. We're all different and someone else may like it enough to go that route.
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Traditionally, most old timers seem to prefer mounting the scope as low to the barrel as possible. That mindset seems to be mostly associated with traditional "sporter" shaped guns.

In this day and age of bullpups high scope mounts are simply reality, and again, not necessarily a bad thing. It certainly effects holdover/turret adjustments, but can be easily accounted for, just like any other factor.
 
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Franklink said:
I filled a foldable front grip with lead and attached it to the front/undermount pic rail a month or two ago. I was just experimenting. It did indeed work like a keel to keep the whole rig more upright in the shooting sticks, and since it folds up it was Hunter class legal. But I didn't like the extra weight so took it off. So, the "keel" type weight was minimal benefit not worth the weight, at least to me. We're all different and someone else may like it enough to go that route.View attachment 403769
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are we limited to 6" below the barrel.
 
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