Other Top Heavy and Tippy

@beerthief - i've been thinking about how to create counter weights on my tube guns
but just as difficult as the center of gravity thing is finding / getting a proper and consistent eye box. Thankfully some talented shooters at the AAFTA National event, showed me how to lower the butt as far as possible and then cant it outward to allow my eye to get behind the scope more evenly. Next i ditched my progressive lenses and re-did ALL my parallax wheels / scope ranging markings. All these changes together are definitely for the better. Yet i noticed that my bottle guns were easier to control in a forced position and didn't cant in the sticks as easily. I am all about getting the scope as low as possible... really helps with those close in holdovers. The picture posted show Aeron CZ's counter weight idea... not quite enough to stop the canting/tipping. Work in progress. Really appreciate the ideas from everyone... that's why we are here.

View attachment 403747
maybe these counter weights but moved forward on the front of the knee riser ? putting it right under the scope ?
 
Traditionally, most old timers seem to prefer mounting the scope as low to the barrel as possible. That mindset seems to be mostly associated with traditional "sporter" shaped guns.

In this day and age of bullpups high scope mounts are simply reality, and again, not necessarily a bad thing. It certainly effects holdover/turret adjustments, but can be easily accounted for, just like any other factor.
That is what i learned simply by accident... the bullpups required a higher scope mount to get me "the shooter" into a reasonable eye box position. While the bulpups offer a lower center of gravity and more weight at the shoulder there are def. trade offs.
 
If you want to add weight why not just put it on the pic rail in front of the trigger similar to where this is. I use it for standing so its easier to get my elbow into my side
IMG_3815.jpeg
 
I have some orthopedic stuff ; An occupational therapist may be able to help you.
I have found that wearing high stiff comfortable boots helps me to remain steady.
I have a long neck,thus adjustable butt pads, and a high adjustable comb helps.
For sure you need a forgiving eyebox.
Orthopedic stuff are different types of braces.
To become one with your airgun.It ain't easy to do as to say.
 
It seems to me that a good fitting stock would go a long way in helping solve the problem of tilting your head into a scope. I started shooting shotguns in trap and sporting clays about 20 years ago and learned how important gun fit was to accurately shooting clays. Interestingly there are a few books dedicated to shotgun fit out there but I haven't seen any for rifles. Cast (the offset of the butt stock to barrel centerline) and cheek riser (adjustable both in the horizontal and vertical) are standard on most high end shotguns. The reason is the shooter's eye is the rear sight on a shotgun. My best guess is most shotgun shooting is at a moving target and when the shotgun is mounted the shooter doesn't have time to adjust the sight picture. His/her eye needs to be in alignment with the barrel when the shotgun is mounted. Whereas a rifle shooter has time to adjust to the target. In the 1950s the Tyrollean stocks were highly regarded as the best fitting airgun stocks for competition until they were outlawed in competition. They moved the shooter's eye better inline with the barrel than the standard stock. Based on this I have always wondered why airgun cheek risers are only adjustable in the vertical and airgunners don't talk about cast. You may want to look at adding a little left/right adjustment to your cheek riser to get a better fit for your neck. Cast maybe harder to do.
 
I have some orthopedic stuff ; An occupational therapist may be able to help you.
I have found that wearing high stiff comfortable boots helps me to remain steady.
I have a long neck,thus adjustable butt pads, and a high adjustable comb helps.
For sure you need a forgiving eyebox.
Orthopedic stuff are different types of braces.
To become one with your airgun.It ain't easy to do as to say.
i am a neuro muscular therapist
 
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It seems to me that a good fitting stock would go a long way in helping solve the problem of tilting your head into a scope. I started shooting shotguns in trap and sporting clays about 20 years ago and learned how important gun fit was to accurately shooting clays. Interestingly there are a few books dedicated to shotgun fit out there but I haven't seen any for rifles. Cast (the offset of the butt stock to barrel centerline) and cheek riser (adjustable both in the horizontal and vertical) are standard on most high end shotguns. The reason is the shooter's eye is the rear sight on a shotgun. My best guess is most shotgun shooting is at a moving target and when the shotgun is mounted the shooter doesn't have time to adjust the sight picture. His/her eye needs to be in alignment with the barrel when the shotgun is mounted. Whereas a rifle shooter has time to adjust to the target. In the 1950s the Tyrollean stocks were highly regarded as the best fitting airgun stocks for competition until they were outlawed in competition. They moved the shooter's eye better inline with the barrel than the standard stock. Based on this I have always wondered why airgun cheek risers are only adjustable in the vertical and airgunners don't talk about cast. You may want to look at adding a little left/right adjustment to your cheek riser to get a better fit for your neck. Cast maybe harder to do.
this is a tyrolean stock on an airgun... in case anybody is curious.
1699355178005.png
 
In my quest to find the perfectly balanced, lightweight air gun and after going through 20 high end Airguns, I’ve come to a personal conclusion - I prefer an air bottle style rifle to an air tube style. This is becoming more and more obvious by the remaining guns in my collection AND which ones get used the most AND my HFT match scores.

Why?

Weight distribution on an air bottle style rifle tends to keep the center of gravity lower, thus the rifle is less tippy once scoped.

I’ve never thought about how to measure tippyness, and this is only a problem when your horizontal holding axis is canted, but it is most definitely a thing.

I love me a sweet air tube rig; up until I’m standing or kneeling and that’s when the struggle begins as body mechanics and hold becomes absolutely critical. That said I also noticed this tippyness when using my Primos Trigger sticks as I had to readjust the head rest back to vertical much more often.

Anyone else notice this?
View attachment 403639

View attachment 403640
I love high scopes, so I understand. The first time I put 1.5” rings on an already tall Impact, I experienced the tippiness you speak of and the joy of high rings. I realized after that experiment, I also needed a much wider bipod for the bench and tossed my Atlas for a wide Accutac.

I now go high and don’t worry what others think as it is so much more comfortable. I have my rings so high right now (and want higher) on my TM1000, that I had to ask Martin to send me some longer cheek rest pins!
 
Hav
@beerthief - i've been thinking about how to create counter weights on my tube guns
but just as difficult as the center of gravity thing is finding / getting a proper and consistent eye box. Thankfully some talented shooters at the AAFTA National event, showed me how to lower the butt as far as possible and then cant it outward to allow my eye to get behind the scope more evenly. Next i ditched my progressive lenses and re-did ALL my parallax wheels / scope ranging markings. All these changes together are definitely for the better. Yet i noticed that my bottle guns were easier to control in a forced position and didn't cant in the sticks as easily. I am all about getting the scope as low as possible... really helps with those close in holdovers. The picture posted show Aeron CZ's counter weight idea... not quite enough to stop the canting/tipping. Work in progress. Really appreciate the ideas from everyone... that's why we are here.

View attachment 403747

Have you thought of a couple of dozen helium balloons tied to it? Just a thought. :LOL:
 
Hav


Have you thought of a couple of dozen helium balloons tied to it? Just a thought. :LOL:
In the end the solution was weight distribution.
1) Air-bottle type guns seem best, especially in a shorter bottle configuration
2) lightest scope possible
3) position scope as far rearward as possible and still have a good eyebox
4) use a butt pad that grips the shoulder capsule
5) use a knee riser pushed as low and rearward as legally possible.
6) use a stock with a highly adjustable comb
The below setup would be absolutely perfect if it had a 330 cc bottle
IMG_6678.jpeg
 
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In the end the solution was weight distribution.
1) Air-bottle type guns seem best, especially in a shorter bottle configuration
2) lightest scope possible
3) position scope as far rearward as possible and still have a good eyebox
4) use a butt pad that grips the shoulder capsule
5) use a knee riser pushed as low and rearward as legally possible.
6) use a stock with a highly adjustable comb
The below setup would be absolutely perfect if it had a 330 cc bottle
View attachment 404239
Nice synopsis.

I think you just enjoy teasing me with that Sapphire.
 
In the end the solution was weight distribution.
1) Air-bottle type guns seem best, especially in a shorter bottle configuration
2) lightest scope possible
3) position scope as far rearward as possible and still have a good eyebox
4) use a butt pad that grips the shoulder capsule
5) use a knee riser pushed as low and rearward as legally possible.
6) use a stock with a highly adjustable comb
The below setup would be absolutely perfect if it had a 330 cc bottle
View attachment 404239
So yeah, I suppose you could hang a MC tire from it, that would most definitely change the center of gravity. Be cheaper too. Just trying to be helpful here. :unsure:
 
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