Tough squirrel, 177 pellet or poor shot placement?

[JimD]

I shot my fifth with my P35-177 a few minutes ago. It is tuned to shoot the H&N Baracuda 10.65 grain it likes at about 900 fps. I saw this squirrel on the fence separating my yard from my neighbors. I went and got the P35 and it ran up an oak as I and my dog Cola came out the door. It did not go very high, maybe 25 feet, but was hidden somewhat by a limb and partially on the other side of the tree. I waited for it to shift position and when I could see the body, but not the head, I shot. I still had to avoid a limb and thus only had a window to shoot through but I heard a distinct plop of the pellet hitting the squirrel. But it didn't immediately drop. A few seconds later it dropped and I put the gun on a chair on my back porch and went to retrieve the squirrel. I saw a bunch of blood where it hit the ground on the wrong side of the fence but no squirrel. Then I looked up my oak closest to the fence and it was there about 10 feet up the tree. It was very shaky and I didn't have my gun so I waited for it to drop. It did in a few seconds and my little dog, Cola, got it. But it was fighting her and she dropped it and it ran under a bush that was right there. Cola got it again and shook it until it stopped moving. Whole thing took a minute or two but wasn't the clean quick kill I like to have.

I hit it low on the neck, I did not get the spine at all. The pellet went through the neck and broke the off side shoulder and came out the lower leg. I am surprised it could climb like that but it did twice. I've had them fail to be able to climb with a leg broken like this before. But the neck wound was fatal, just not real quickly. It had to bleed out. So my placement was not great. But would a bigger hole have dropped it quicker? I think it probably would have. But I'm even more confident that better placement would have dropped it quicker. This is the second squirrel out of 5 with my 177 that Cola had to shake to finish it off. That never happened in 20 squirrels with my 25s. Cola definitely gets an assist for this one. (the picture of Cola is from this summer, she is debating attacking a snake) I think the squirrel was also more determined to escape than many I have shot. It was a 16 ounce male.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

Shot placement helps ,but.... Ya know.

Anymore i use .22 at 800+ fps guns.

 

[Ezana4CE]

@JimD I’m of the opinion that a larger hole in a place that far from the vital organs would have a similar result. I can think of 3 squirrels where poor placement prolonged their deaths that I could see. I usually will walk up on them close and shoot them in the head or cut the arteries in the neck and esophagus in the same stroke of a knife.

I’ve had an instance where I shot one with a .25 pellet in the gut and thought she was dead. When I got up close to her I saw she was still breathing so I put the muzzle to the side of her head and shot. She was still breathing after the shot. I shot her two more times (and I think I cut her throat) before she stopped breathing. To me she was alive as long as I could see her breathing and that bothered me. Point being, a bigger hole doesn’t guarantee a swift death. Placement trumps all as long as you’re using sufficient velocity and projectile weight for the animal. I had to learn what to do as soon as I realized that the animal was suffering.

 

[elh0102]

It's all shot placement. I've killed a bunch of squirrels with my 12 fpe HW100, shooting the 10 g at a little over 700 fps.

 

[L.Leon]

Shot placement, maybe wait for a head shot? Or a vitals shot, and yes, that looks like a tough squirrel…

 

[JimD]

I'd already pretty much decided my P35-22 needs some chances next. I bought the 177 and 22 at the same time but have been using the 177 to get some data points on how it does. The first time I shot one in the body and it dropped but wasn't dead and Cola finished it off I started to wonder. This was a neck shot but not into the middle or upper neck where I've had them drop consistently. The three I hit in the head all fell at impact but the two where I did not hit the brain died pretty quickly but not as quick as I like to see. I think it was mainly the placement but I think the fact it was a 177 and a pretty determined squirrel also were factors.

 

[dizzums]

i dunno, 177 isnt the meanest round for sure .. where ive found they shine is high velocity .. not heavys, but standard light pellets.. they dont hold the speed way out either, but yeah, cook a 177 round out at 1050 1100 at a closer range like under 30, and it has a pretty devastating affect particularly if it hits skull or bone, kinda 'explodes' bone splinters and makes a lethal wound ..

 

[Ezana4CE]

@JimD I look at guys like @intenseaty22 and @Flintsack and realize that shooting squirrels with low-powered airguns in smaller calibers is a skillset. I imagine it takes a good amount of practice on paper and experience hunting or pesting the animals to be confident in taking the shots they take.

I don’t know how you feel about it, but I feel like crap when I see animals suffering after I shoot them. Not as much for pest animals, but the goal is not to cause suffering. For me it’s generally to eat or to dispatch problematic animals to remedy an issue often revolving around property damage. See if you get a different result with the .22.

 

[Simplyhooked PCPs]

I shot my fifth with my P35-177 a few minutes ago. It is tuned to shoot the H&N Baracuda 10.65 grain it likes at about 900 fps. I saw this squirrel on the fence separating my yard from my neighbors. I went and got the P35 and it ran up an oak as I and my dog Cola came out the door. It did not go very high, maybe 25 feet, but was hidden somewhat by a limb and partially on the other side of the tree. I waited for it to shift position and when I could see the body, but not the head, I shot. I still had to avoid a limb and thus only had a window to shoot through but I heard a distinct plop of the pellet hitting the squirrel. But it didn't immediately drop. A few seconds later it dropped and I put the gun on a chair on my back porch and went to retrieve the squirrel. I saw a bunch of blood where it hit the ground on the wrong side of the fence but no squirrel. Then I looked up my oak closest to the fence and it was there about 10 feet up the tree. It was very shaky and I didn't have my gun so I waited for it to drop. It did in a few seconds and my little dog, Cola, got it. But it was fighting her and she dropped it and it ran under a bush that was right there. Cola got it again and shook it until it stopped moving. Whole thing took a minute or two but wasn't the clean quick kill I like to have.

I hit it low on the neck, I did not get the spine at all. The pellet went through the neck and broke the off side shoulder and came out the lower leg. I am surprised it could climb like that but it did twice. I've had them fail to be able to climb with a leg broken like this before. But the neck wound was fatal, just not real quickly. It had to bleed out. So my placement was not great. But would a bigger hole have dropped it quicker? I think it probably would have. But I'm even more confident that better placement would have dropped it quicker. This is the second squirrel out of 5 with my 177 that Cola had to shake to finish it off. That never happened in 20 squirrels with my 25s. Cola definitely gets an assist for this one. (the picture of Cola is from this summer, she is debating attacking a snake) I think the squirrel was also more determined to escape than many I have shot. It was a 16 ounce male.

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JimD; This is another great post and it's always great hearing about situations when things don't go as planned but things do happen to all of us at one time or another. Many years ago, shortly after I left the Air Force, I shot a squirrel with a Croman MSP bb gun wounding the squirrel and my grandfathers dog ran up to get the squirrel. Well, things didn't go so well for the dog because the squirrel split our dogs nose open like a switch blade knife. Long story short, after shaking the squirrel to death, Duke left with a bloody nose. I've learned to take head shots only between the eye and the ear if possible or in their face between the eyes if necessary. I tell my wife that "I'm going to shoot them in the face" and sometimes it works and sometimes I just miss! That's a very nice rig you've got there and I like your pup as well!

 

[JEFFPPC]

Less then perfect shot placement yields less than perfect results, regardless of caliber. Every shot when hunting will not be pefect. On a marginal hit a larger hole may be better than a smaller hole....maybe.

 

[Dr. Kralenstein]

I actually had a squirrel get away today. 32 yards shot in the base of the neck/shoulder area just below the throat. 177 cphp going 850 fps. It did the flip in the air and bolted up the back stop and down the fence into the brush. No blood trail.

My squirrel this morning bled out super fast from my 25. I feel I will be seeing that other one again.

When I had my 177 set up at 20 fpe I would still get run off squirrels unless it was a good head shot. I think I'm keeping the 177 to just pest birds and 22 and 25 for the rodents.

 

[Simplyhooked PCPs]

@JimD I’m of the opinion that a larger hole in a place that far from the vital organs would have a similar result. I can think of 3 squirrels where poor placement prolonged their deaths that I could see. I usually will walk up on them close and shoot them in the head or cut the arteries in the neck and esophagus in the same stroke of a knife.

I’ve had an instance where I shot one with a .25 pellet in the gut and thought she was dead. When I got up close to her I saw she was still breathing so I put the muzzle to the side of her head and shot. She was still breathing after the shot. I shot her two more times (and I think I cut her throat) before she stopped breathing. To me she was alive as long as I could see her breathing and that bothered me. Point being, a bigger hole doesn’t guarantee a swift death.

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I had to learn what to do as soon as I realized that the animal was suffering.

Ezana4CE;

Squirrels are some of the toughest critters to take with any kind of rifle or shot gun and some people say that their hide is made out of Kevlar that's why I do what I do!

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@JimD I’m of the opinion that a larger hole in a place that far from the vital organs would have a similar result. I can think of 3 squirrels where poor placement prolonged their deaths that I could see. I usually will walk up on them close and shoot them in the head or cut the arteries in the neck and esophagus in the same stroke of a knife.

I’ve had an instance where I shot one with a .25 pellet in the gut and thought she was dead. When I got up close to her I saw she was still breathing so I put the muzzle to the side of her head and shot. She was still breathing after the shot. I shot her two more times (and I think I cut her throat) before she stopped breathing. To me she was alive as long as I could see her breathing and that bothered me. Point being, a bigger hole doesn’t guarantee a swift de
I had to learn what to do as soon as I realized that the animal was suffering.

@JimD I’m of the opinion that a larger hole in a place that far from the vital organs would have a similar result. I can think of 3 squirrels where poor placement prolonged their deaths that I could see. I usually will walk up on them close and shoot them in the head or cut the arteries in the neck and esophagus in the same stroke of a knife.

I’ve had an instance where I shot one with a .25 pellet in the gut and thought she was dead. When I got up close to her I saw she was still breathing so I put the muzzle to the side of her head and shot. She was still breathing after the shot. I shot her two more times (and I think I cut her throat) before she stopped breathing. To me she was alive as long as I could see her breathing and that bothered me. Point being, a bigger hole doesn’t guarantee a swift death. Placement trumps all as long as you’re using sufficient velocity and projectile weight for the animal. I had to learn what to do as soon as I realized that the animal was suffering.

Ezana4CE;

I've been told that squirrel hide are made of kevlar and when I'm field dressing skinning them, sometimes I would if that statement is true because they are tough as you know what. "placement trumps all as long as you're using sufficient velocity and projectile weight for the animal." I cannot agree more because it's been proven for more than centuries regardless of the projectile used.

 

[Ezana4CE]

I like to practice with these Crosman Varmint targets. There are 20 targets to a pack with 4 different pest animals for $4.99. Maybe they will be helpful to someone that reads this.

For me shooting a picture of the animal I intend to hunt helps a lot. I have noticed that very similar results occur on the actual animals in regards to placement and grouping (on rare occasions when I shoot a couple of successive shots quickly).

 

[Dr. Kralenstein]

I like to practice with these Crosman Varmint targets. There are 20 targets to a pack with 4 different pest animals for $4.99. Maybe they will be helpful to someone that reads this.
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For me shooting a picture of the animal I intend to hunt helps a lot. I have noticed that very similar results occur on the actual animals in regards to placement and grouping (on rare occasions when I shoot a couple of successive shots quickly).

Those targets seem to be misplaced on the vitals to me. That almost looks like an upper intestine shot.

 

[intenseaty22]

You have to look at anatomy here. A critter will perish only when you disrupt vital function of life like brain, lungs, & heart. Even a spine shot at the wrong place will only give you a paralyzed critter that will lay there and still breathe. A .177 pellet is small enough to possibly thread through vital areas in the neck such as the trachea and the carotid arteries, miss them completely, break an arm, and yes, still be capable of climbing a tree. This is specially true with diabolo pellets.

The .177 pellet is extremely capable of disrupting vital function for life, but you have to consider your POI. Think of it in relation to a 9mm bullet that is capable of taking an animal about 6 foot tall. A .177 is probably like a 9mm in relation to a 6’ animal.

Try aiming at the shoulder broadside. Head shot if you are very confident in your shot placement. A quartering shot is also good, but always think of the location of the vitals in relation to the POI. I’ve also hit them directly in the chest.

If your gun can shoot Polymags or Hades almost just as good, try them instead.

If you hit both lungs, they deflate and are unable to deliver oxygen to the brain pretty much instantly. That and the heart will continue to pump blood into the lungs and out of circulation (literally & figuratively)

 

[Ezana4CE]

Those targets seem to be misplaced on the vitals to me. That almost looks like an upper intestine shot.

@bootscreep Good observation. Aim where you like, but be sure your projectiles are impacting where you are aiming. After looking at it again I see what you mean and I guess the manufacturer didn’t want the outer target to print over the squirrel’s face.

 

[Simplyhooked PCPs]

I like to practice with these Crosman Varmint targets. There are 20 targets to a pack with 4 different pest animals for $4.99. Maybe they will be helpful to someone that reads this.
View attachment 310979
For me shooting a picture of the animal I intend to hunt helps a lot. I have noticed that very similar results occur on the actual animals in regards to placement and grouping (on rare occasions when I shoot a couple of successive shots quickly).

EzanaCE4: It does help to practice with targets like this one because of shot placement and when a persons shots are properly placed, the end results are always, well not quite always pays off with humane kills.

 

[Dr. Kralenstein]

I think alot of it has to do with how relaxed the game is before the shot. Just like deer, when they're not on edge they tend to go DRT with a vital shot. Bucks tend to run because they're typically on edge during a rut.

 

[qball]

It's not a good shot placement for sure if it doesn't die quickly, please consider goi for vital shots because they are much more forgiving. I too was into the headshots until I too had a couple bad shot placement and realized headshots should be called brain shots.

 

[Simplyhooked PCPs]

It's not a good shot placement for sure if it doesn't die quickly, please consider goi for vital shots because they are much more forgiving. I too was into the headshots until I too had a couple bad shot placement and realized headshots should be called brain shots.

@qball;

Exactly because an animal/squirrel can take a shot to the head (face for example) with a .177 and not die because of poor shot placement. I'm sorry to say this because it happens and to me as well, being honest I have to tell it all. "headshots should be called brain shots".