Tuning Tuning regulator - can you have a reg set too low?

[MushroomPsyche]

When tuning a gun with a regulator, is there a minimum reg pressure where the gun will start doing not so well?

My experience is with the Taipan Veteran Short .25 caliber. When I bought it a few months ago, I tuned it to 25 FPE with the JSB King 25.39gr. pellets. The reg pressure ended up at 65 bars and the hammer spring tension was tuned to the knee about 2% less than maximum. This tune was shooting the JSB King at 670 FPS. I would zero the rifle and think everything is good only to miss a 27 meter kill shot that requires a follow up shot the next day on a squirrel.

That distance is very comfortable for me as I've went a good stretch with my 30 FPE Veteran Long without missing a shot. I know how that sounds but I'm not trying to brag. I'm just trying to understand if it's really me.

I will then check my zero again at 33 meters and has always been hard keeping it within half an inch or so.

After I missed my last squirrel a few days ago, I decided to re-tune the gun to 32 FPE with the same pellets. The regulator ended up at 95 bars with the pellets going 755 FPS. I've only shot paper yet, but I find it's much easier to hit bullseye with this new tune.

Yes, I know 755 FPS is faster than 670 FPS so I believe it does help with lock time some but I feel it's not the major contributing factor since MANY people are accurate with velocities much slower than 670 FPS. Could it be the pellet is just not accurate at that speed with my barrel? By raising the reg pressure, does the gun now have better harmonics than when it was lower? Is the 95 bar pressure better for this pellet because it accelerates it quicker and creating a better seal when compared to the slow acceleration at 65 bar reg?

These are some of the variables that I think is affecting my gun. I'm starting to believe that for a particular gun/pellet combination, there might be an ideal reg pressure that will allow the projectile to seal against the barrel properly and accelerate it fast enough and have time to settle down before exiting the barrel. I don't know... I'm not too versed in this stuff but I'm just reporting what I'm seeing and experiencing firsthand.

 

[Vetmx]

I think it’s pretty simple. You don’t make a gun do what you want it to do. In order for it to perform at its best, you figure out what it wants to do. No different than a powder burner. You can’t say I only want to shoot this bullet this fast. It just doesn’t work that way sending any projectile.

 

[Trucker3573]

I feel you can absolutely set it too low. All depends on the hammer weight, spring tension and valve spring. You could set a reg so low that it is over hammered even with everything set to minimum hammer strike.

 

[MushroomPsyche]

I think it’s pretty simple. You don’t make a gun do what you want it to do. In order for it to perform at its best, you figure out what it wants to do. No different than a powder burner. You can’t say I only want to shoot this bullet this fast. It just doesn’t work that way sending any projectile.

Yes, I get that, but I'm trying to understand how the variables relate to one another, because without understanding what variables really matter, I'm practically flying blind since most guns today are sold at maximum settings.

Case in point, when I bought my Taipan Veteran Long .22 a few years back, it was set from the factory shooting the 18.13gr at 1010 FPS. I don't really know what pellets they were expecting people to shoot at that power level. The JSB 20.83gr wasn't available back then and the .22 25.39gr pellets from all I've read will not be accurate at that power and speed. There were proper weights for that power in H&N pellets, but none I've tried was accurate with that gun. Talon Tunes told me to back the hammer spring tension, but I had to back it down so much for normal weight pellets that the consistency was just terrible. That was when my journey though all this tuning began. When I bought that gun, I had no intentions of messing around with it... However, how it came from the factory really forced my hand and got me to tuning it.

I'm starting to find that with the OG Veterans, 100 bars reg pressure is just about the minimum the gun will tolerate. I don't know how porting and plenum size plays into this and what their influences are in relation to different reg pressures. This is my finding with all three sizes Veterans and in both .22 and .25 calibers.

 

[MushroomPsyche]

I feel you can absolutely set it too low. All depends on the hammer weight, spring tension and valve spring. You could set a reg so low that it is over hammered even with everything set to minimum hammer strike.

As I gain more experience with this gun, I am finding this to be very true. Seems the hammer weight and springs (valve and hammer) really limit how low a tune this gun can take.

This probably explains why Taipan has never made a sub 12 ft/lb version of this gun (as far as I know) even though the Brits have been asking for it for years now. They will have to re-engineer everything about the gun to make it shoot that low on a proper tune.

 

[Vetmx]

Yes, I get that, but I'm trying to understand how the variables relate to one another, because without understanding what variables really matter, I'm practically flying blind since most guns today are sold at maximum settings.

Case in point, when I bought my Taipan Veteran Long .22 a few years back, it was set from the factory shooting the 18.13gr at 1010 FPS. I don't really know what pellets they were expecting people to shoot at that power level. The JSB 20.83gr wasn't available back then and the .22 25.39gr pellets from all I've read will not be accurate at that power and speed. There were proper weights for that power in H&N pellets, but none I've tried was accurate with that gun. Talon Tunes told me to back the hammer spring tension, but I had to back it down so much for normal weight pellets that the consistency was just terrible. That was when my journey though all this tuning began. When I bought that gun, I had no intentions of messing around with it... However, how it came from the factory really forced my hand and got me to tuning it.

I'm starting to find that with the OG Veterans, 100 bars reg pressure is just about the minimum the gun will tolerate. I don't know how porting and plenum size plays into this and what their influences are in relation to different reg pressures. This is my finding with all three sizes Veterans and in both .22 and .25 calibers.

It sounds like your long came set for MRD’s. At 1010fps you definitely got baptized by fire because that reg setting was way off for 18.1’s. I have an OG vet because I purchased it new in 2017. It’s a .22 standard and my factory reg setting was 128b. Its been a great gun with 18gr pellets going 900fps or Polymags about 930ish.

Just a little fun fact for you while you’re in the learning mode. I discovered one of Taipans little secrets to an absolutely clean shot cycle. My gun came with a hammer spring that couldn’t even be adjusted to find the plateau velocity at 128b. But it was enough spring to let me float above and below the knee. It’s genius. Yes, I had to install one of Tony’s Taipan truck springs when I visited slug land briefly, but once I returned to 128b, I didn’t like the truck spring. Yes, it put me right back at 900fps. But with the lighter spring set at 900fps, the gun was better.

 

[Tricky-Dicky]

Too many variables to say yes or no to reg pressure, apart from hammer strike the plenum volume will be critical to achieving the velocity for whatever weight projectile you want to shoot as will the TP.

 

[Peashooter]

Om my Maverick shooting a set slug to a set speed there was a too low, CUZ 70 BAR did not shoot as well as shooting the same with 90 BAR on the regulator.

I did try last summer to shoot 10.xx pellets in my Two using the lowest possible reg setting of 57 BAR, and i am hoping to get to even lower pressures this year.
Last summer i could get to even lower speeds CUZ i was shooting fast, but then the flatness of the shot string was out the window, so " biting " a shot off like that with the valve opening less was not optimal.
So this year i am hoping to be able to regulate down to 47 BAR

Dont take much when you have a fairly light pellet and a 700 mm long runway to get it up to speed.

 

[MushroomPsyche]

I did some shooting tonight with the Taipan Veteran Short .25 at 33 meters. The tune at 95 bars reg pressure is definitely much better than before. JSB King 25.39gr. and breezy 8 mph wind. Please don't crucify me... I know these are not the best groups that you have ever seen but I couldn't even get any where close to these with the reg at the 65 bars tune.

5 shot group 0.475" CTC. 4 in 0.375" CTC. ▼

5 shots 0.5" CTC ▼

This was my best group tonight. 5 shots 0.25 CTC. ▼

Experimenting with different holds trying to shoot the center and the intersecting lines. ▼

 

[Tricky-Dicky]

I think you would do far better if you try and increase the velocity to around the 8-900fps mark with that weight of projectile, so unfortunately this will take the reg set at higher pressure wind also becomes a bit less of an influence at higher velocities, there is no real compromise to less air use at higher projectile weights/velocities, you can save air by making the shot cycle more efficient by stopping things like hammer/valve bounce.

 

[Freddy J]

What's it do at 50 and 100 yards?

 

[JungleShooter]

When tuning a gun with a regulator, is there a minimum reg pressure where the gun will start doing not so well?

My experience is with the Taipan Veteran Short .25 caliber. When I bought it a few months ago, I tuned it to 25 FPE with the JSB King 25.39gr. pellets. The reg pressure ended up at 65 bars and the hammer spring tension was tuned to the knee about 2% less than maximum. This tune was shooting the JSB King at 670 FPS. I would zero the rifle and think everything is good only to miss a 27 meter kill shot that requires a follow up shot the next day on a squirrel.

That distance is very comfortable for me as I've went a good stretch with my 30 FPE Veteran Long without missing a shot. I know how that sounds but I'm not trying to brag. I'm just trying to understand if it's really me.

I will then check my zero again at 33 meters and has always been hard keeping it within half an inch or so.

After I missed my last squirrel a few days ago, I decided to re-tune the gun to 32 FPE with the same pellets. The regulator ended up at 95 bars with the pellets going 755 FPS. I've only shot paper yet, but I find it's much easier to hit bullseye with this new tune.

Yes, I know 755 FPS is faster than 670 FPS so I believe it does help with lock time some but I feel it's not the major contributing factor since MANY people are accurate with velocities much slower than 670 FPS. Could it be the pellet is just not accurate at that speed with my barrel? By raising the reg pressure, does the gun now have better harmonics than when it was lower? Is the 95 bar pressure better for this pellet because it accelerates it quicker and creating a better seal when compared to the slow acceleration at 65 bar reg?

These are some of the variables that I think is affecting my gun. I'm starting to believe that for a particular gun/pellet combination, there might be an ideal reg pressure that will allow the projectile to seal against the barrel properly and accelerate it fast enough and have time to settle down before exiting the barrel. I don't know... I'm not too versed in this stuff but I'm just reporting what I'm seeing and experiencing firsthand.

Maybe I missed it, sorry if I did:

Why do you want to shoot at such a low power, and why do thay with such a (copmaratively) large caliber?

I'm not criticizing this at all — I am trying to understand your rationale — and to learn something!


Cheers,

Matthias

 

[MushroomPsyche]

Maybe I missed it, sorry if I did:

Why do you want to shoot at such a low power, and why do thay with such a (copmaratively) large caliber?

I'm not criticizing this at all — I am trying to understand your rationale — and to learn something!


Cheers,

Matthias

I have the Standard Veteran .25 that I have tuned shooting 45 FPE. I figure I'd tune the Short for a lower power option for shorter range shots. Yes, the Short with the 65 bars regulator tune was good enough for 15 meters, but I don't want to be limited in distance like that because the gun/tune is inaccurate.

I also like the efficiency of the .25 caliber compared to the .22 caliber. For comparison, My Standard Veteran .22 with a 30 FPE tune was getting 50 shots on the regulator. The Short .25, having a much shorter barrel and a smaller air cylinder, gets 62 shots at the 32 FPE tune I have it now. The Short .25 is also a bit quieter than the Standard .22 and the Long .22 at the same power levels.

 

[JungleShooter]

I have the Standard Veteran .25 that I have tuned shooting 45 FPE. I figure I'd tune the Short for a lower power option for shorter range shots. Yes, the Short with the 65 bars regulator tune was good enough for 15 meters, but I don't want to be limited in distance like that because the gun/tune is inaccurate.

I also like the efficiency of the .25 caliber compared to the .22 caliber. For comparison, My Standard Veteran .22 with a 30 FPE tune was getting 50 shots on the regulator. The Short .25, having a much shorter barrel and a smaller air cylinder, gets 62 shots at the 32 FPE tune I have it now. The Short .25 is also a bit quieter than the Standard .22 and the Long .22 at the same power levels.

Thank you, that was a very helpful answer!

At the same power level, the larger caliber gives you more shots, and quieter shots.

Matthias