Taipan Ugly/Beautiful

[weevil]

A QUESTION (For those of you who are “veterans of the Veterans”)

Context: I went out early and shot a pack of Altaros at a 100y in perfect conditions. Good news is that my 10 x 8-shot groups are 18% tighter than with the Panthera! I then figured that it might be useful to nudge the speed up and down to see if there was any improvement. However, it is clear that my current hammer spring tension is right on the limit - 1/4 turn below the point where the gun won’t cock. So, no headroom to increase speed, and no way to know where my current tune sits on the curve for the current reg pressure (which is also an unknown). Obviously one area where a Panthera has some advantages..

Anyway some quick “research” indicates availability of a power spring, but it seems to be OTT in terms of power, according to several users. Others have employed shims/washers between spring and adjuster body. What’s puzzling me is…. If the hammer system is getting coil bound, as reported, how is adding shims (to increase spring preload) any different to increasing preload using the adjuster?

 

[Franklink]

A QUESTION (For those of you who are “veterans of the Veterans”)

Context: I went out early and shot a pack of Altaros at a 100y in perfect conditions. Good news is that my 10 x 8-shot groups are 18% tighter than with the Panthera! I then figured that it might be useful to nudge the speed up and down to see if there was any improvement. However, it is clear that my current hammer spring tension is right on the limit - 1/4 turn below the point where the gun won’t cock. So, no headroom to increase speed, and no way to know where my current tune sits on the curve for the current reg pressure (which is also an unknown). Obviously one area where a Panthera has some advantages..

Anyway some quick “research” indicates availability of a power spring, but it seems to be OTT in terms of power, according to several users. Others have employed shims/washers between spring and adjuster body. What’s puzzling me is…. If the hammer system is getting coil bound, as reported, how is adding shims (to increase spring preload) any different to increasing preload using the adjuster?

As for the reg pressure, all the Vet 1s that I've been inside had the reg pressure written on the reg with a red marker from the factory. so once you're inside the gun you'll probably know what the factory set it as, assuming they're still doing that.

Also, the factory regs in the Gen 1 seem to have a range of about 95-100 to 150-155bar. Can't remember which dir action right now but one end is because the adjustments bottom out and he other end is because it just doesn't seem to reliably regulate at that extreme.

The talon tunes hammer spring is crazy stiff. I only used it for a few shots and cringed everytime I cocked the gun. Just seems to put a huge amount of stress on the cocking linkages.

 

[weevil]

As for the reg pressure, all the Vet 1s that I've been inside had the reg pressure written on the reg with a red marker from the factory. so once you're inside the gun you'll probably know what the factory set it as, assuming they're still doing that.

Also, the factory regs in the Gen 1 seem to have a range of about 95-100 to 150-155bar. Can't remember which dir action right now but one end is because the adjustments bottom out and he other end is because it just doesn't seem to reliably regulate at that extreme.

The talon tunes hammer spring is crazy stiff. I only used it for a few shots and cringed everytime I cocked the gun. Just seems to put a huge amount of stress on the cocking linkages.

Thanks for the insight, Cole.

I’m hoping not to “go inside” (for once) because I’m pretty confident that it is in a good spot on the power curve. I certainly don’t want to screw up the nice cocking action or smash the poppet!

 

[Slyde]

My Vet 2 did not have anything written on the reg like others have seen. Taipan told me in a recent email(yesterday) that they set the regulators at 135 bar when they send them out. I have the reg tester from Tony at Talon and it tested at 137 bar.

Edited to add.

I have run into the same situation where the hammer adjustment is a quarter turn from not cocking and still FPS is climbing. I just played with 120 Bar and it peaked just before that point. So I think in mine, the stock spring will handle roughly 120-125 bar at most before peaking.

.25 caliber

 

[weevil]

My Vet 2 did not have anything written on the reg like others have seen. Taipan told me in a recent email(yesterday) that they set the regulators at 135 bar when they send them out. I have the reg tester from Tony at Talon and it tested at 137 bar.

Edited to add.

I have run into the same situation where the hammer adjustment is a quarter turn from not cocking and still FPS is climbing. I just played with 120 Bar and it peaked just before that point. So I think in mine, the stock spring will handle roughly 120-125 bar at most before peaking.

.25 caliber

Is that the 550mm or 700mm? (Or more importantly, did Taipan say the regs are at 135 for both variants?)

 

[MushroomPsyche]

My Veteran 1 Long didn't have anything written on it. I don't have a reg tester for it but it was falling off at around 140 to 145 bars when I tested a shot string. The Veteran Standard that I just received had "135" written on it.

 

[Slyde]

Is that the 550mm or 700mm? (Or more importantly, did Taipan say the regs are at 135 for both variants?)

It’s funny you ask because I forgot to mention to them what barrel length I had. I asked what reg setting they send rifles to the US. They said “Regulator is normally set up at 135 bars”.

Mine is the 700mm.

 

[weevil]

It’s funny you ask because I forgot to mention to them what barrel length I had. I asked what reg setting they send rifles to the US. They said “Regulator is normally set up at 135 bars”.

Mine is the 700mm.

thanks… I guess I better take a look at mine. Does the barrel need to come off to get to the reg?

 

[Slyde]

thanks… I guess I better take a look at mine. Does the barrel need to come off to get to the reg?

It does. I suppose you could take the bottle and drop link(?) off to spin the plenum off. But that just seems like too many things taken apart when not really needed. I pull the barrel, picatinny rail assy and spin the plenum off.

Edit: You are very knowledgeable but I’ll also mention, just in case, that when you reassemble, pay particular attention to the alignment of the pic rail assy. It can be easily canted when you put it back together. It’s easy to line up but also easy to misalign if not paying attention.

 

[weevil]

I printed HST shims in 1, 1.5 and 2mm and tried the 1.5. It does increase the hammer strength, so I guess that normally, the system is limited by space for the hammer/weight to move, rather than coil-binding per se. I learned that the plateau was 905 with the stock reg setting, so I was running high on the curve.

I then extracted the reg by removing the bottle, gauge and tube endcap. It looked like the trigger guard would need to come off to unscrew the tube so I just pulled the reg out of the front with a lasso around the top collar made from fly line. Western style. My dog hates the sound of a reg blowing out of a tube with HPA!

The reg is unmarked:

I bumped it up three units (holes) with a screw driver in bottom, which seems to be around 6bar, according to other posts. There seems to be a spacer behind the reg that adds more to the plenum. I guess that could be made longer or shorter as needed.

The 1.5mm shim was still enough to find the higher plateau at the increased pressure (it was 918). That will give me the headroom to find the sweet spot for the Altaros 32.4, between 880-900.

15-20min to do it this way, and no futzing with the barrel/rail. Happy camper.

I also figured out what the larger pins are for in the Oring kit. (Disassembling the moderator). I won’t say any more about that, except that it’s nice that there is a way to clean it!

 

[weevil]

Some thoughts. If my reg is now ~140, based on the useful info from @Slyde , I have to concede that this Vet 2 is substantially less potent than the Panthera. My Panthera would shoot the same slugs at 890 on the knee at 120bar with 100mm less barrel. However, the Vet 2 has it totally licked on shot count/efficiency. I’m guessing that the valve on these Vet 2s is of the short dwell variety and would need to be “fixed” to get them into the 60fpe range. Doesn’t matter to me because I don’t need to shoot anything heavier.

I guess it’s worth mentioning that the slugs I’m using are the 2.173 diameter. They also have a smaller variant (2.165) that I haven’t tried. I have 20 packs of the 2.173, so I’m glad they’re working!

 

[Franklink]

I printed HST shims in 1, 1.5 and 2mm and tried the 1.5. It does increase the hammer strength, so I guess that normally, the system is limited by space for the hammer/weight to move, rather than coil-binding per se. I learned that the plateau was 905 with the stock reg setting, so I was running high on the curve.

I then extracted the reg by removing the bottle, gauge and tube endcap. It looked like the trigger guard would need to come off to unscrew the tube so I just pulled the reg out of the front with a lasso around the top collar made from fly line. Western style. My dog hates the sound of a reg blowing out of a tube with HPA!

The reg is unmarked:

View attachment 490756View attachment 490757

I bumped it up three units (holes) with a screw driver in bottom, which seems to be around 6bar, according to other posts. There seems to be a spacer behind the reg that adds more to the plenum. I guess that could be made longer or shorter as needed.

The 1.5mm shim was still enough to find the higher plateau at the increased pressure (it was 918). That will give me the headroom to find the sweet spot for the Altaros 32.4, between 880-900.

15-20min to do it this way, and no futzing with the barrel/rail. Happy camper.

I also figured out what the larger pins are for in the Oring kit. (Disassembling the moderator). I won’t say any more about that, except that it’s nice that there is a way to clean it!

Looks to be the same regulator design as OG Veteran.

The length of that plenum spacer could maybe be fiddled with a bit, but it spaces the regulator in the tube in the correct location for the vent hole, so a different sized spacer of too much/too little and I think you'd get into trouble.

One of the sets of pins also fits the valve, again, assuming they're using the same valving as first gen Vets (and they probably are, since so many of the other parts are the same from Vet 1 to Vet 2.

Don't remember which of my Vets this valve came from, but red marker is there for 125bar. Thinking maybe it was the .22 Long.

And the pins for the valve...

 

[weevil]

Good to know. Thanks @Franklink

 

[EPG]

My .22 (550) Vet 2 reg was pulled by original owner and Huma installed at 150bar.

Original owner said no issues with the Taipan reg, he just prefers Huma.

Not sure if he or factory made this “2” marking. No other markings on it.

 

[MushroomPsyche]

Some thoughts. If my reg is now ~140, based on the useful info from @Slyde , I have to concede that this Vet 2 is substantially less potent than the Panthera. My Panthera would shoot the same slugs at 890 on the knee at 120bar with 100mm less barrel. However, the Vet 2 has it totally licked on shot count/efficiency. I’m guessing that the valve on these Vet 2s is of the short dwell variety and would need to be “fixed” to get them into the 60fpe range. Doesn’t matter to me because I don’t need to shoot anything heavier.

I guess it’s worth mentioning that the slugs I’m using are the 2.173 diameter. They also have a smaller variant (2.165) that I haven’t tried. I have 20 packs of the 2.173, so I’m glad they’re working!

The regulator on the Veteran 1 would never come out from the front side. There's a small ledge that the top of the regulator sits on that will only let it go from the back side. They might have changed the design so it's easier to adjust the plenum volume without using the extensions since the Veteran 2 Tacticals are already long enough with the bottle at the front.

Also regarding the power, I believe the Mutants and Veterans were originally designed as medium powered guns where as the Panthera was designed from the ground up as high power. Yes, the Veteran 2 is different from the Veteran 1 but the design and some of the components are largely the same. I'm suspecting as well that it's the porting. There are some things you can do to the porting but it's a one way trip and it is very easy to mess up. I would personally never do that to my guns especially since spare parts are hard to come by.

Other than the durability of the valve stem, are there other things we need to worry about when pushing the guns to the limits?

 

[Slyde]

Maybe of note, maybe not. The belville washer stack up in my V2T is different than the stack up Mr Rowe has on his videos. I have it in my notes and verified its order. It’s )) (()) (()) (()) ((. Same number if springs, just different order.

I spent some time today with the reg at 110 bar. This Taipan is a different animal to me. Moving 1/2 HST at a time, then less as the speed was in the mid to high 900’s.. The FPS average from 782 to 966 before it wouldn’t cock. The only two, 782FPS and 906FPS had poor ES and SD. The rest were less than 5 ES and 1-1.9 SD. It’s hard for me to find the reg/hammer sweet spot. But I’m not as experienced as many of you. Any advice? I’m all ears!

This was with 34gr pellets. JSB Knockouts shot about 15 FPS slower on average.

Edit to add: I don’t think my reg will come out the front side either. There is a small shoulder preventing it.

 

[MushroomPsyche]

Maybe of note, maybe not. The belville washer stack up in my V2T is different than the stack up Mr Rowe has on his videos. I have it in my notes and verified its order. It’s )) (()) (()) (()) ((. Same number if springs, just different order.

I spent some time today with the reg at 110 bar. This Taipan is a different animal to me. Moving 1/2 HST at a time, then less as the speed was in the mid to high 900’s.. The FPS average from 782 to 966 before it wouldn’t cock. The only two, 782FPS and 906FPS had poor ES and SD. The rest were less than 5 ES and 1-1.9 SD. It’s hard for me to find the reg/hammer sweet spot. But I’m not as experienced as many of you. Any advice? I’m all ears!

This was with 34gr pellets. JSB Knockouts shot about 15 FPS slower on average.

Edit to add: I don’t think my reg will come out the front side either. There is a small shoulder preventing it.

My experience is that if your hammer spring tension is not enough for the regulator pressure, the ES and SD really tend to suffer. It is very efficient in its usage of air, but the consistency is not good especially that first shot. Tuned for consistency, the gun will waste some air in some fill pressures but I prefer the ES and SD to be as tight as possible.

 

[Slyde]

My experience is that if your hammer spring tension is not enough for the regulator pressure, the ES and SD really tend to suffer. It is very efficient in its usage of air, but the consistency is not good especially that first shot. Tuned for consistency, the gun will waste some air in some fill pressures but I prefer the ES and SD to be as tight as possible.

I appreciate that MushroomPsyche, thank you. But that’s the thing. Today, at 110 bar, probably 15 HST steps from 782-966 FPS all but two steps had really good ES and SD. 5 or less ES and less than 2 SD. Although that’s with roughly 7 shots per step. It’s seems like instead of a tuning “knee” it’s a tuning “thigh”. I’m having trouble finding the hammer/regulator balance if that makes sense.

 

[MushroomPsyche]

I appreciate that MushroomPsyche, thank you. But that’s the thing. Today, at 110 bar, probably 15 HST steps from 782-966 FPS all but two steps had really good ES and SD. 5 or less ES and less than 2 SD. Although that’s with roughly 7 shots per step. It’s seems like instead of a tuning “knee” it’s a tuning “thigh”. I’m having trouble finding the hammer/regulator balance if that makes sense.

When you said steps, what exactly are you referring to? What I found with Taipan Veterans is that the closer you get to the ideal power, the smaller adjustments it takes to fine tune it. The way I quantify it is by using a caliper to measure how high the brass screw sits from the receiver block as counting rotations becomes non practical. Even then, I only use it as reference so I can go back to it quicker later on if I ever have to disassemble the gun for maintenance purposes. I still have to do a few shots and fine tune if I ever touch the HST screw.

What I'd suggest is for a given regulator pressure, find out the absolute maximum a particular projectile will shoot out of the gun. Subtract 2% to 3% from that and slowly adjust the hammer tension to reach that number. Once you get really close to your desired number, even a quarter turn of the brass HST screw is too much. Once you reach your ideal number, do a few shots to make sure and call it good. It will drive you crazy trying to chase PERFECT numbers. In my experience, 2% to 3% below the maximum gives a very tight tune to the Taipan Veteran. I'm happy if I have extreme spreads of 20 or less on shot strings done between multiple sessions. The numbers are usually much tighter than that when the shot string is done in quick succession of one shot immediately after another.

Keep in mind though that a certain tune is usually only optimized for one particular projectile. This is especially true when it comes to projectile weights. So make sure to tune the gun with the specific projectile that you use the most.

 

[MushroomPsyche]

I appreciate that MushroomPsyche, thank you. But that’s the thing. Today, at 110 bar, probably 15 HST steps from 782-966 FPS all but two steps had really good ES and SD. 5 or less ES and less than 2 SD. Although that’s with roughly 7 shots per step. It’s seems like instead of a tuning “knee” it’s a tuning “thigh”. I’m having trouble finding the hammer/regulator balance if that makes sense.

So if 966 FPS is the fastest you could get with a particular projectile when you can't cock the gun anymore at that 110 bar reg pressure, if it was me, I would set the hammer spring tension to give velocities of 940 FPS. As a matter of coincidence, this was actually the maximum velocity my Taipan Veteran Long .22 had with the JSB Hades. I set the velocities to 945 FPS and didn't touch the tune until I was ready to sell the gun. With that tune, I will sometimes see 955 FPS to as low as 938 FPS when I just randomly put the gun on the chronograph. However, 10 shot strings done in the same session have always yielded around 5 ES and 2 or less SD.