Underlever Underpower

[TornadoBones]

I shoot break barrels but I want to have accuracy benefits of a fixed barrel. (Trust me, I'm a scientist and a statistician and I've studied that topic for many years under controlled conditions. Not trying to start an accuracy debate.) If you disagree, let's agree to disagree so I can get to the real point. I want superior aftermarket barrel options that simply aren't available for breakers but I want the freedom from air pumps or ill just use a powder burner.

Here's the underlever rifles I've been able to find all max out around 880 or lower fps for .22. While these speeds are maybe optimal, in terms of accuracy, it seriously limits the range and knock down power needed for humane hunting. The ground hogs see me 100yds out. I need more than 30-50yds or I can't hit them, regardless of accuracy. I want 50+yds accuracy of a fixed barrel with the power of my break barrels like my Walther Talon Magnum. If fps is too high for accuracy, I'll manage that with heavier pellets. I don't want to manage it with reduced firepower from the underlever.

If the break barrel can achieve hundreds of fps higher using the barrel as a lever, why can't an underlever do it using a dedicated cocking lever?

 

[Bear-of-Grayling]

jkingrph: I have always found it quite amazing how a barrel cocker with a moving barrel in front of a scope or diopter sight can remain so accurate Most people will add to ”their“ accuracy with a scope or diopter however in theory the “gun itself” may have lessened a bit because sights fixed to the moving barrel must be superior “no matter how small” to one on the barrel and one behind the barrel “movement”. We just can’t use the fixed iron sights optimally. I know I certainly cannot.

 

[jkingrph]

It would be interesting on a break barrel to add an extension on the barrel pivot where the factory leaf is usually mounted, to extend all the way back over the action to the point where we normally mount a diopter, for the express purpose of mounting a diopter, or scope and see how more accurate it would be as compared to the same rifle with the sights mounted to the normal receiver tube. Two downsides would be increased weight as such an extension woulf be rather heavy and would probably require much higher front sights.

 

[Bear-of-Grayling]

It would be interesting on a break barrel to add an extension on the barrel pivot where the factory leaf is usually mounted, to extend all the way back over the action to the point where we normally mount a diopter, for the express purpose of mounting a diopter, or scope and see how more accurate it would be as compared to the same rifle with the sights mounted to the normal receiver tube. Two downsides would be increased weight as such an extension woulf be rather heavy and would probably require much higher front sights.

And a loading obstruction. It’s amazing to me how accurate a barrel cocker is and REMAINS after even tens of thousands rounds.

 

[Sqwirl57]

And a loading obstruction. It’s amazing to me how accurate a barrel cocker is and REMAINS after even tens of thousands rounds.

The key (as most people know) is not cheating out. I scoped my FWB Sport for the first time the other day and couldn't believe how well it was stacking pellets. I knew it was accurate but I have only been using it for irons at 10m so I wanted to stretch its legs. I couldn't stop grinning because it just kept putting pellet after pellet right where I wanted it too.

I think I need a second one...

 

[KitCarson16]

I shoot break barrels but I want to have accuracy benefits of a fixed barrel. (Trust me, I'm a scientist and a statistician and I've studied that topic for many years under controlled conditions. Not trying to start an accuracy debate.) If you disagree, let's agree to disagree so I can get to the real point. I want superior aftermarket barrel options that simply aren't available for breakers but I want the freedom from air pumps or ill just use a powder burner.

Here's the underlever rifles I've been able to find all max out around 880 or lower fps for .22. While these speeds are maybe optimal, in terms of accuracy, it seriously limits the range and knock down power needed for humane hunting. The ground hogs see me 100yds out. I need more than 30-50yds or I can't hit them, regardless of accuracy. I want 50+yds accuracy of a fixed barrel with the power of my break barrels like my Walther Talon Magnum. If fps is too high for accuracy, I'll manage that with heavier pellets. I don't want to manage it with reduced firepower from the underlever.

If the break barrel can achieve hundreds of fps higher using the barrel as a lever, why can't an underlever do it using a dedicated cocking lever?

I am no scientist, however I am a retired Hockyologist. (Master Plumber) Grin!! As for statistics I know for certain that past 50 yards it is me the shooter who is not accurate under real life shooting conditions to make that humane shot. Therefore I limit most hunting shots to a maximum of 50 yards. All of my springers and gas piston rifles are more capable than I am. Even using my shooting sticks to steady a shot there is human error to consider. So it is much more than the rifle, it is the combination of rifle and shooter. For me 50 yards is maximum to maintain a one inch circle for a kill shot.
I would not even attempt to shoot a groundhog at 100 yards with any of my springers under real hunting conditions. My offhand shooting stick kill group would be five inches or more. That 1.5 inch group off a bench is not realistic under hunting conditions.
As far as accuracy of a break barrel versus fixed barrel within normal ranges springers are normally used and up to 50 yards quality rifles used, my fixed barrel HW97 is only appox 1/8 inch tighter than such as my HW95. The 97 is capable of a 1/4 to 3/8 group and the 95 consistently shoots 1/2 inch groups.
None of this matters to such as a squirrel as all groups are inside the one inch kill zone and both rifles equal a dead squirrel.
Out past 50 yards it is myself that is the weak link in the chain. A groundhog is not going to sit out there and let you set up a bench, go get your rifle rest and sandbag. You will take a shot in respect to real conditions and most likely even trying to shoot prone will not work as grass or elevation of the ground at 100 yards will get in the way. So you will end up using the top of a fence post, or resting your arm on a tree.
So the weak link is us the shooters.
I have shot many groundhogs around 104 to 120 yards with a very good .22 rimfire rifle. They love to dig under the barn. However it is shooting a 40 grain lead and the rifle is not hold sensitive like any and all springers are especially at long range where human error is magnified. I have shot a few of them with my .25 Crown also, however it is also not hold sensitive and has quite the wallop.
What you are looking for does not exist. You will also find that the FPS and FPE is much less than you suspect with that Talon, using something like a 21 grain Barracuda pellet.
Cheers
Kit

 

[jkingrph]

The key (as most people know) is not cheating out. I scoped my FWB Sport for the first time the other day and couldn't believe how well it was stacking pellets. I knew it was accurate but I have only been using it for irons at 10m so I wanted to stretch its legs. I couldn't stop grinning because it just kept putting pellet after pellet right where I wanted it too.

I think I need a second one...

I very briefly scoped mine for a try and got the same result, also tried it with a Anschutz diopter and got very good results. The factory rear leaf is so good I decided to leave it as the sole rifle I have so equipped. If it were made so the factory rear could be easily removed and still look good then I would probably put one of the williams receiver sights on it, but plan on leaving it factory stock as it just looks, feels, and handles good as is.

 

[Sqwirl57]

I very briefly scoped mine for a try and got the same result, also tried it with a Anschutz diopter and got very good results. The factory rear leaf is so good I decided to leave it as the sole rifle I have so equipped. If it were made so the factory rear could be easily removed and still look good then I would probably put one of the williams receiver sights on it, but plan on leaving it factory stock as it just looks, feels, and handles good as is.

I took my scope off afterwords too and went back to irons. I'm not a great irons shooter but this gun has really helped me learn them and will continue to do that. If I do get a second one at some point I plan on going a little crazy de-tuning it down to 7ftlbs (will probably need to fabricate a longer piston rod) and use that one for indoor and rescope the 13.5ftlb one.

I understand why the gun got so much hate at its original price point, and honestly I still understand it at its current price, but after putting in under two hours of work it is easily the best break barrel I own. Someone will probably punch me for saying this but I even prefer the trigger over the Rekord...

Here's my current best 10 shot regulation 10m card with it. It isn't good by most standards (especially that wise guy that had to wander off) but I was pretty proud of it.