Underlever VS Breakbarrel

[napairgunner]

I have both (97,TX, and used to have a 77) plus HW 98 R9, Theoben Crusader I have not seen any difference as others have said with a quality BB vs an underlever for accuracy. In both cases the pellet is pushed directly into the barrel anyway so I don't see that they is actually that much difference really anyway.

 

[Airdudebro]

I belive in any spring or gas piston rifle, triggers are so important and so is lock time. Weather it's a break barrel or fixed barrel tune your trigger practice with it and get that lock up time down to a quick thud, u will be money

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

quality vs quality. no difference. besides underlever being heavier. 

 

[Lewis]

I would like to say there is no difference, and certainly, in my hands, any difference is lost to shooter error. However, you simply can't ignore that fixed barrels take 9 of the top 10 spots over and over in competition settings. These are competitors who can afford to shoot anything they like.

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

I think the weight is used to their advantage.... you'll notice they also use VERY bulky stocks, and very large scopes

 

[BigT]

@DonC the HW77 is your best option for iron sights.

 

[EMrider]

I’m not aware of any controlled tests that have been done on this question, so all that you can do is try and sort through the anecdotes.

It is worth noting, however, that high-level spring gun field target competitors almost always use under-lever guns. You will see a lot of TX200s, hw97ks and RWS54s. Not a lot of break barrel guns.

R 

 

[bandg]

I would like to say there is no difference, and certainly, in my hands, any difference is lost to shooter error. However, you simply can't ignore that fixed barrels take 9 of the top 10 spots over and over in competition settings. These are competitors who can afford to shoot anything they like.

I've never checked the stats personally but this seems pretty relevant to the question.

 

[DualMagMike]

The shooter has nothing to do with the inherent accuracy of any gun despite the mentioning it does. A gun has a certain ability and the shooter has another, the 2 are not the same and can easily enhance or reduce results pending what gun is used. It seems many forget or have never seen the old Beeman guides that mentioned CTC accuracy of numerous pistols and rifles clearly showing some guns are more accurate than others. Of course variables come into play (pellet used, break in period, etc.) aside from that there are certainly more and less accurate guns. This usually becomes very evident when looking at numerous tournament results (FT, EBR, 10M) over a several months or longer and over a large area with many different shooters. It certainly does seem though in most competitions break barrels either are not even being used or are out of the top 3 places.

 

[jkingrph]

I have a new HW 97k Underlever and a Diana 54 Air King Pro sidelever and will put my 47 year old Fwb 124 brake barrel up against them any day. Now if i really want to best any of them it will be the old FWB 300s match rifle.

 

[MDriskill]

I too firmly believe that any quality break-barrel design can equal any fixed barrel in basic mechanical accuracy. As well described above, many other factors: weight, balance, trigger, sights, etc. come into play when accuracy in real-world situations is involved.

Let's be honest though - there's a certain amount of psychology involved with our toys too! And there's not a thing wrong with that. If the idea of a break-barrel just plain bugs you...no problem, buy a fixed barrel and fret no more, LOL. 

Veering off-topic a bit, but if the auto sprung detent breech latch is the detail that drives you crazy, you aren't alone. And there is another solution: break-barrels with a manually locked breech. The classic example is the evergreen Weihrauch HW 35, but the idea has been around since pre-war rifles from Haenel, FLZ, etc. Others in more modern times include the Anschutz 335, Haenel models 1 and 3, and Webley Omega sporters; Walther LGV (both classic target gun and recent sporter); Weihrauch HW 55 target rifle; and Diana 65/66 recoilless match rifles.

Another interesting advantage of these guns is that you can open and close the breech without the "pop" of a sprung detent, which some hunters like.

 

[bowtieguy66]

Heavier, if your going to carry it around I wouldn’t advise it. Been down that road already. I like the idea of the under lever, but it was just too tiring carrying that weight. 

I went back from the 77 to a 95, and then switched to a Williams peep site to shed a 1 lb scope. If your just going to be on a bench go for the 77. 

 

[bandg]

I too firmly believe that any quality break-barrel design can equal any fixed barrel in basic mechanical accuracy. As well described above, many other factors: weight, balance, trigger, sights, etc. come into play when accuracy in real-world situations is involved.

Let's be honest though - there's a certain amount of psychology involved with our toys too! And there's not a thing wrong with that. If the idea of a break-barrel just plain bugs you...no problem, buy a fixed barrel and fret no more, LOL. 

Veering off-topic a bit, but if the auto sprung detent breech latch is the detail that drives you crazy, you aren't alone. And there is another solution: break-barrels with a manually locked breech. The classic example is the evergreen Weihrauch HW 35, but the idea has been around since pre-war rifles from Haenel, FLZ, etc. Others in more modern times include the Anschutz 335, Haenel models 1 and 3, and Webley Omega sporters; Walther LGV (both classic target gun and recent sporter); Weihrauch HW 55 target rifle; and Diana 65/66 recoilless match rifles.

Another interesting advantage of these guns is that you can open and close the breech without the "pop" of a sprung detent, which some hunters like.

Manually locked breech. An interesting thought is WHY such was believed to be needed.

 

[Guest]

I too firmly believe that any quality break-barrel design can equal any fixed barrel in basic mechanical accuracy. As well described above, many other factors: weight, balance, trigger, sights, etc. come into play when accuracy in real-world situations is involved.

Let's be honest though - there's a certain amount of psychology involved with our toys too! And there's not a thing wrong with that. If the idea of a break-barrel just plain bugs you...no problem, buy a fixed barrel and fret no more, LOL. 

Veering off-topic a bit, but if the auto sprung detent breech latch is the detail that drives you crazy, you aren't alone. And there is another solution: break-barrels with a manually locked breech. The classic example is the evergreen Weihrauch HW 35, but the idea has been around since pre-war rifles from Haenel, FLZ, etc. Others in more modern times include the Anschutz 335, Haenel models 1 and 3, and Webley Omega sporters; Walther LGV (both classic target gun and recent sporter); Weihrauch HW 55 target rifle; and Diana 65/66 recoilless match rifles.

Another interesting advantage of these guns is that you can open and close the breech without the "pop" of a sprung detent, which some hunters like.

Manually locked breech. An interesting thought is WHY such was believed to be needed.

You do realize that under lever rifles have exactly that, right? That does not mean the fellow who prefers a break barrel in the woods because it is lighter is at even the slightest disadvantage. My HW-98 shoots real good. It shoots BETTER than my D460 or my D48. It doesn't shoot as hard though. Mind you, I am an enormous fan of under lever rifles. I am also a stand hunter. If I was walking the woods all day, I'd pick something like a Diana Model 34 or other light rifle intended for field use over my heavier break barrels every time. Shots are shorter and more fleeting usually and that means something I can carry without getting tired and bring to bear on the target more quickly is going to get the nod.

A quick point is in NO WAY as precise a tool as a scope except when gunning fleeting targets AND THEN it is much more useful.

Every rifle has it's place.

 

[bandg]

"You do realize that under lever rifles have exactly that, right? That does not mean the fellow who prefers a break barrel in the woods because it is lighter is at even the slightest disadvantage."

The point is, the addition of a manual lock to a break barrel was (is) viewed as "good" by some. WHY such a view existed is the question. Maybe lockup mechanisms for break barrels have improved to the point of total reliability. And maybe not. As to the second sentence above ("even the SLIGHTEST disadvantage"), opinions certainly vary.

 

[Guest]

The shooter has nothing to do with the inherent accuracy of any gun despite the mentioning it does. A gun has a certain ability and the shooter has another, the 2 are not the same and can easily enhance or reduce results pending what gun is used. It seems many forget or have never seen the old Beeman guides that mentioned CTC accuracy of numerous pistols and rifles clearly showing some guns are more accurate than others. Of course variables come into play (pellet used, break in period, etc.) aside from that there are certainly more and less accurate guns. This usually becomes very evident when looking at numerous tournament results (FT, EBR, 10M) over a several months or longer and over a large area with many different shooters. It certainly does seem though in most competitions break barrels either are not even being used or are out of the top 3 places.

Sorry for the really dumb question, but what does "c-t-c" mean? That list is a great bit of information!

 

[bowtieguy66]

Center to center

 

[DualMagMike]

CTC is center to center measurement of the holes in the target. Edges are typically not used to measure as the tear in the paper may well be exaggerated. So the measurement of the center of furthest holes of a group is what is used for accuracy tests and is called CTC (center to center).

 

[thumper]

I'll still pick an underlever anytime the chips are down and for long term consistency. 

Barrel pivot tension adjustment and changes in tension with wear/use will result in a POI change in a break barrel. 

FWB Sports and their chintzy spring washer breech shim and pivot bolt arrangement demonstrate this pretty well in the few I've owned. Weihrauchs not so much, but still there. 

So inherent group size ability, no difference. 

Consistency in POI over a long time, the underlever wins. 

Not many guys consistently winning field target with break barrels. Must be just a coincidence right? 

 

[bowtieguy66]

“The chips are down?”

lol