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USARB Introduction

Mark, should we be concerned that someone running a shooting organization doesn’t know the difference between the 5th Amendment and the 2nd Amendment? I’ll just assume that was a brain fart on your part and move on. But, a sincere thank you for jumping into a leadership role with the USARB. I know how much time and effort it takes to keep matches and organizations running smoothly. Here’s my opinions on USARB and the sport of benchrest.

1) I wish that all benchrest in the US would be under one organization and therefore one set of rules. I understand that N50 may have been born out of the lack of interest in 50 yard events with USARB clubs. And the major 100 yard events all use different target sizes and rules. Getting everyone on the same page for 100 yards would be great. The 100 yard events also do the dreaded one card final, which is not much better than a coin flip among the top 15-20 shooters. I understand the reasons they do that, but I’d like to see a 3 card total be used. But, if all of this can’t be merged into one organization, and I seriously doubt it will, I think it would be best for the USARB to focus on 25M/25Yards.

2) Regarding classes. I think those participating in the USA Open and Unlimited classes are more likely to be migrating to N50 since the rules and power limits for those classes seem more geared towards 50 yards. So, I don’t mind those 2 classes going away. But, I don’t think any changes should be made to LV and HV. The rules for those are WRABF rules and if we intend to send more people to worlds, those are the rules that we’ll be needing to prepare and practice for. I think it’s a great idea to add LV Sportsmen and HV Sportsmen classes. I already see many, especially those that are new to the sport, start out with a bipod and a bag or 2 bags or other configurations that aren’t WRABF compliant. Having those additional classes would encourage participation and people will move up as they progress. Now that I think about it, maybe leave the USA Open class intact so we wouldn’t turn someone away that hasn’t tuned their gun down (or for someone with a 1-piece rest or an electronic trigger). And leave the one piston class as it is.

3) Regarding equipment. I don’t have any issue competing against guns with electronic triggers (even though WRABF doesn’t allow it), as long as the trigger is built into the gun in a traditional place and configuration. Heck, my RAW breaks at around 2.5 oz, so I don’t see the point of the restriction. But, a separate switch removed from the gun should not be allowed. LV and HV airguns don’t really move when fired, so I don’t really care about restricting weight. I don’t think I would shoot any different if I added 10 pounds to my gun. I don’t really see a good way to restrict certain guns (like a Thomas) to a certain class without creating a lot of hassle and confusion. I wouldn’t mind seeing someone with a Thomas, a bipod and a bag shoot in a sportsmen’s class their first couple matches, but if they place near the top, I think the match director should nicely encourage them to move up to LV/HV. Anyone that drops 4k on air gun is likely to be able to afford a WRABF compliant set-up and likely will buy one if they find USARB events to be fun. Also, with the low power we are shooting at and the low number of shots per card, I don’t see why anyone needs to tether.

4) I would be interested in a national event, but it would probably need to be very central US for most to consider going. The idea of trying to fund some or all of the travel expenses associated with going to the worlds is a good one. Hopefully one day we can all be competing to be one of the top few sent to the worlds with all expenses paid. Having the “all expenses” or even some expenses carrot dangled in front of me would make me much more likely to attend nationals.
First of all, congratulations to Mark and I wish him the best of luck in his new role. Personally, USARB was one of the organizing models for Air rifle Benchrest in my country when we started, I'm happy that this association is going to return to its the proud days once again.
I have talked many times with old members of USARB and competed with your shooters in the WRABF world championship for three times.
Regarding the WRABF, I would like to inform you of the updated rules so that you can plan better for your national competitions and prepare your team for the upcoming World Cup 2025/World Championships 2027,
Currently, WRABF WC/WCH are held for three classes : light and heavy rifle at 25m and 50m unlimited.
The new rules approved and announced in Pilsen 2023 include the use of electronic triggers in all three classes. (It is still not allowed to use electronic triggers outside the action of the rifle like some Thomas rifles), and rules regarding the use of bipods may also be applied in the future. (I will updating)
The 50m unlimited class does not have the weight and power limitations, it is possible to use many airrifles in this class. I think this class is a good entry point for those interested in target shooting and AR benchrest shooting. I suggest that the USARB use this class in their competitions and try to develop it.
Also, the 100/75 meter class was approved in the 2023 General meeting, but its implementation was postponed to 2027 and currently it is not among the official classes of the World Championship yet.
Your idea of having the same rules in all member clubs and using the same targets is a good start for better organization.
I hope to see a full team of US shooters at the World Championships in the future.

Thanks
Sadeq
 
Hi Mark, you said this,
"...start a non profit to support our shooters competing at the Worlds.
It's embarrassing most every dime has to come out of the competitors pocket."


I completely agree that we should financially help send our shooters to worldwide events. We should also find a way to identify the best shooters just like we do finding the best Olympic US athletes. Other countries do this. My comment, "$0.25/card (or more)" was just an idea how shooting sports can contribute to the cause.
To select the best shooters, the organization of the members of the association must first be determined, then with a public call and a specified date, one or more classification competitions can be determined to determine the best shooters in the world championship classes.
The United States is a big country and it will definitely not be easy to coordinate, but I hope you will do it. It was great for me to be with the American shooters at the World Championships and we always enjoy seeing them.
 
Good Morning,

I'm thinking it's time for me to respond to a few of these.


beerthief, I too like the 12 ftlb class but am happy we're able to shoot more powerful classes too. I believe England has restrictions on higher
than 12 ftlb guns so a lot of their shooting is in the LV class. Personally I think it's a tougher class and really like shooting it.

If you can't clamp the rest, then you can't clamp the bipods either. The front two feet of the clamped bipod will leave the table on the rigs you approve of. JS
how you attach your gun to the rest (bipod or 1 piece), has to be the same. You can't allow it on one, and not the other .
 
If you can't clamp the rest, then you can't clamp the bipods either. The front two feet of the clamped bipod will leave the table on the rigs you approve of. JS
how you attach your gun to the rest (bipod or 1 piece), has to be the same. You can't allow it on one, and not the other .
Well, I guess you can, but some won't see it as fair. As long as it sits well with those that "matter" is all that really counts. Those who have arrived, have faced bigger challenges in getting there I do suppose.
 
First of all, congratulations to Mark and I wish him the best of luck in his new role. Personally, USARB was one of the organizing models for Air rifle Benchrest in my country when we started, I'm happy that this association is going to return to its the proud days once again.
I have talked many times with old members of USARB and competed with your shooters in the WRABF world championship for three times.
Regarding the WRABF, I would like to inform you of the updated rules so that you can plan better for your national competitions and prepare your team for the upcoming World Cup 2025/World Championships 2027,
Currently, WRABF WC/WCH are held for three classes : light and heavy rifle at 25m and 50m unlimited.
The new rules approved and announced in Pilsen 2023 include the use of electronic triggers in all three classes. (It is still not allowed to use electronic triggers outside the action of the rifle like some Thomas rifles), and rules regarding the use of bipods may also be applied in the future. (I will updating)
The 50m unlimited class does not have the weight and power limitations, it is possible to use many airrifles in this class. I think this class is a good entry point for those interested in target shooting and AR benchrest shooting. I suggest that the USARB use this class in their competitions and try to develop it.
Also, the 100/75 meter class was approved in the 2023 General meeting, but its implementation was postponed to 2027 and currently it is not among the official classes of the World Championship yet.
Your idea of having the same rules in all member clubs and using the same targets is a good start for better organization.
I hope to see a full team of US shooters at the World Championships in the future.

Thanks
Sadeq
It is nice to see 50m implemented in WRABF, but as far as USARB is concerned there has been zero updates to what is even happening with the organization. I know the past BOD did not do much to keep it going but at present this is not a good sign for the future of USARB.

The lack of interest in 25m shooting is obvious in the states. I'm hopeful something good will come along to help rejuvenate it.

Joe
 
I use a 1 piece rest for my 12 FPE Piatt/Thomas and 12 FPE USFT. If a two piece rest is required I use an Eagle front and PQP rear.

The most enjoyable shooting is Three Point with my .177 FX Impact. Only 3 points of contact with the bench or table top is allowed: 2 legs of the bipod and the elbow of your non trigger hand. It has its roots in urban sniper training - shooting off a kitchen table to clear a windowsill. Would make a nice class where marksmanship out weighs equipment.
 
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It is nice to see 50m implemented in WRABF, but as far as USARB is concerned there has been zero updates to what is even happening with the organization. I know the past BOD did not do much to keep it going but at present this is not a good sign for the future of USARB.

The lack of interest in 25m shooting is obvious in the states. I'm hopeful something good will come along to help rejuvenate it.

Joe

It is nice to see 50m implemented in WRABF, but as far as USARB is concerned there has been zero updates to what is even happening with the organization. I know the past BOD did not do much to keep it going but at present this is not a good sign for the future of USARB.

The lack of interest in 25m shooting is obvious in the states. I'm hopeful something good will come along to help rejuvenate it.

Joe
Hi Joe,

I take exception to the zero updates on USARB. We have made several rule changes and clubs post both indoor and outdoor scores every month.
All on the USARB website.
Nowhere near as many as I wish though.

Updates are difficult to get just to the people that want to see them. My feelings are the USARB website is where that should happen.
That website is owned by you, meaning I'm not free to move or change it. I'm exploring the costs involved.
The USARB website is very old and in need of updating. Steve Ware has indicated he wasn't interested in making a new website that can directly import spreadsheets into scoreline. So it looks like I will have to do that too.

I am hoping to have a regional event this summer in either NY or ME
A National event in CA or NM seems like a long shot with $1300 in the USARB bank right now. But if i get enough interest I'll do my best to have one.
I hold outdoor matches at Harvard Ma in the summer and North Berwick Me hold monthly matches. They have had as many as 16 shooters at one match
requiring 2 relays. And are now looking to introduce a second match each month for new shooters.
Both Harvard and North Berwick take a lot of my time. But are both moving in the right direction. North Berwick draws shooters from as far a 3 states away.

I was nominated for this position and do the best I can. One person replacing 4 has proven to be a challenge. But I'm still happy I took it.
With regard to the world class shooters. I figured they'd be the first to offer advice and help. The only 2 that have are Todd Banks and Doug Miller. Todd even offering to help with a regional event. Most shooters that reach out to me are looking for a club to shoot.

Plans for 2024 are to offer a individual USARB membership and start a postal league. I've ordered scoring plugs and when I receive a reply from you as to the current target status and how to order more I'll handle that. This effort is intended to pull shooters together and grow the funds necessary to hold a national event.


Sadeq, I will be reaching out to you next for info on the WRABF rule changes and any updated target files.

I'm open to suggestions,

Mark
 
Hi Joe,

I take exception to the zero updates on USARB. We have made several rule changes and clubs post both indoor and outdoor scores every month.
All on the USARB website.
Nowhere near as many as I wish though.

Updates are difficult to get just to the people that want to see them. My feelings are the USARB website is where that should happen.
That website is owned by you, meaning I'm not free to move or change it. I'm exploring the costs involved.
The USARB website is very old and in need of updating. Steve Ware has indicated he wasn't interested in making a new website that can directly import spreadsheets into scoreline. So it looks like I will have to do that too.

I am hoping to have a regional event this summer in either NY or ME
A National event in CA or NM seems like a long shot with $1300 in the USARB bank right now. But if i get enough interest I'll do my best to have one.
I hold outdoor matches at Harvard Ma in the summer and North Berwick Me hold monthly matches. They have had as many as 16 shooters at one match
requiring 2 relays. And are now looking to introduce a second match each month for new shooters.
Both Harvard and North Berwick take a lot of my time. But are both moving in the right direction. North Berwick draws shooters from as far a 3 states away.

I was nominated for this position and do the best I can. One person replacing 4 has proven to be a challenge. But I'm still happy I took it.
With regard to the world class shooters. I figured they'd be the first to offer advice and help. The only 2 that have are Todd Banks and Doug Miller. Todd even offering to help with a regional event. Most shooters that reach out to me are looking for a club to shoot.

Plans for 2024 are to offer a individual USARB membership and start a postal league. I've ordered scoring plugs and when I receive a reply from you as to the current target status and how to order more I'll handle that. This effort is intended to pull shooters together and grow the funds necessary to hold a national event.


Sadeq, I will be reaching out to you next for info on the WRABF rule changes and any updated target files.

I'm open to suggestions,

Mark
I'm delighted to see you respond to my post. Lou sent 3 files, if you can't open please advise. I have 2400 targets left. It is a good idea to procure updated target files from one of the WRABF Board members. You will need to find a quality printer.

I do not own that website for one, second having 4 Board members was not that great of a thing, it was more difficult at times then good but we worked it out.

My advice to you is contact match directors to help with a broader input on rule changes since you are 1 person. When you make a rule change post it on the forum.
 
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MTM,

Our plans at Palmyra Sportsmens Association is to hold 3 airgun benchrest "Under the Stars" competitions in 2024.

We have lights coming for testing target illumination and the distance preferred by our members is 50 yards.The majority of our members shoot AAFTA Field Target with a few hardcore benchrest shooters, as such, 50 yards was a unanimous choice.

Two of our shooters, who are just plain fun to shoot with, compete at the Pyramyd Air event, so one of the 3 events maybe held at 100 yards for their preparation.

50 yard rules and targets have yet to be chosen, so please advise when your rules have been updated!

Thanks,

Troy Bakel
 
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Hello Everyone,

I'd like to introduce myself (Mark Marini) as the new director for the USARB.
I've been around these parts for quite some time now. Although not as active
here as I was on the old yellow. None the less I'm a very active benchrest shooter.
I shoot and work on airguns most every day. I volunteered for this position after
seeing things slow down during covid. Its coming back some but I'd love to see some
new faces. I hope this thread provides some positive feedback for me to work with.

The Good, The Bad, The Ugly, FIRE AWAY! I want to hear it.

Some things I'm considering:

1. Eliminating the Unlimited Class starting next season.

2. POSSIBLY adding a Sporter LV and HV class. Rules TBD but the idea would be more of a entry
level class where the Thomas's and the like (sorry Mike) don't seem like a impossibility to compete with.
Possible bipod and sand bags only. Let me know what you think.

3. I'm very interested in getting new shooters including responsible youngsters shooting.
To that end. I've given myself the task of collecting old used equipment. Guns, Scopes, Rests, Ammo etc
donated. Repair and tune the guns then loan the equipment to new worthy shooters to use until they can purchase
their own or return to me for the next person in line. This is being done in Paul Bendix name as most of the equipment
has come from him and his desire for others to benefit from it. I'm sure most of you know Paul. A finer person I've never met.

4. I'm very interested in getting a national event going. Who's interested? Where?

5. My last thought at the moment is to start a non profit to support our shooters competing at the Worlds.
It's embarrassing most every dime has to come out of the competitors pocket.

USARB won't diminish to nothing If we all shoot a little more. Share a little more. And find some new blood for us all to help
see what a great sport and people we can be.

Thank You for listening,
Mark
Thank you for allowing guns with Daystate-like electronic triggers to compete in regular classes.

Would it be possible to permit tethering, or at least give MD's the OK to permit it. I think tethering is much safer than seeing shooters attaching/detaching air lines to guns during matches.
 
Hi Joe,

I take exception to the zero updates on USARB. We have made several rule changes and clubs post both indoor and outdoor scores every month.
All on the USARB website.
Nowhere near as many as I wish though.

Updates are difficult to get just to the people that want to see them. My feelings are the USARB website is where that should happen.
That website is owned by you, meaning I'm not free to move or change it. I'm exploring the costs involved.
The USARB website is very old and in need of updating. Steve Ware has indicated he wasn't interested in making a new website that can directly import spreadsheets into scoreline. So it looks like I will have to do that too.

I am hoping to have a regional event this summer in either NY or ME
A National event in CA or NM seems like a long shot with $1300 in the USARB bank right now. But if i get enough interest I'll do my best to have one.
I hold outdoor matches at Harvard Ma in the summer and North Berwick Me hold monthly matches. They have had as many as 16 shooters at one match
requiring 2 relays. And are now looking to introduce a second match each month for new shooters.
Both Harvard and North Berwick take a lot of my time. But are both moving in the right direction. North Berwick draws shooters from as far a 3 states away.

I was nominated for this position and do the best I can. One person replacing 4 has proven to be a challenge. But I'm still happy I took it.
With regard to the world class shooters. I figured they'd be the first to offer advice and help. The only 2 that have are Todd Banks and Doug Miller. Todd even offering to help with a regional event. Most shooters that reach out to me are looking for a club to shoot.

Plans for 2024 are to offer a individual USARB membership and start a postal league. I've ordered scoring plugs and when I receive a reply from you as to the current target status and how to order more I'll handle that. This effort is intended to pull shooters together and grow the funds necessary to hold a national event.


Sadeq, I will be reaching out to you next for info on the WRABF rule changes and any updated target files.

I'm open to suggestions,

Mark
Mark,
I hope there have been some positive changes in the USARB in the last few months. The updated rules will be posted on the WRABF website, which can be viewed from this link.
In next year, the World Cup will be hosted by Finland. Where we may once again see a good and strong presence of the US team in the air rifle classes.
Changes have been made in the targets and 75/100m targets have also been added. I will be in touch with you via email.

WRABF Rules 2023-2027 V04.3


Cheers,
Sadeq