???? Walther LP53
- Thread starter jim1950
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Its the Trigger pawl locked into the piston sear groove.
Drive out the pin and out pops tbe Trigger pawl..
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By trigger pawl do you mean trigger bar, part #15 you have highlighted in red. Do I need to remove the cocking lever in order to accomplish this. What worries me is that when I remove the grips, there seems to be no access to those parts other than through the cocking lever slot. DOes that trigger bar and it's spring have to be completely removed, or just moved enough to allot the piston to pass?
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Shame, I was hoping to replace the leather seal a 3mm cross section o-ring (a bit like the LP53) but the recess is only 2mm deep. I was thinking if I could remove the barrel it would be possible to turn a bit off the step at the breech that forms the recess.
Maybe I could try rubber washers.
Unless anybody knows an easy way to slice 1mm off an o-ring...Upvote 0
Yes trigger bar …as they called it back then.
By simply tapping out the pin with a 2mm pin punch the item will just spring out with the spring behind it.
It will not fly out so do not worry. It will just shunt out under slight spring tension for about 1 inch range onto the bench.
With this part sprung out, the piston can now be safely pulled out.
Remember to remove the barrel first and keep the barrel shims safe.
One word of warning…..Do not…and i mean ever….remove the trigger pin. The replacement is a days frustration by a highly skilled engineer. You need to make a little slave pin to assemble the parts so do not do it..
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No need to fret it. Standard 2mm O ring (actual is usually 2.2) which is tight on the barrel side is fine.Shame, I was hoping to replace the leather seal a 3mm cross section o-ring (a bit like the LP53) but the recess is only 2mm deep. I was thinking if I could remove the barrel it would be possible to turn a bit off the step at the breech that forms the recess.
Maybe I could try rubber washers.
The O ring eventually expands over time to close up on the larger outer dia.
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Well got home from a half days work, cleared the table and went to work. Took the barrel and cocking lever off, then tapped out that pin and removed the trigger bar. The piston and and I guess cocking sleeve would then move, I slide it far enough out to see that it needes new washers, the leather was frayed on bottom edge. It did not want to come all the out so did not try to force it. Then came trying to put everything back together. Try as I might, I just could not get the trigger bar back in. I tried for well over an hour with no luck and finally gave up and bagged up the bar, spring and pin so they would not get lost. Any suggestions on how to position that trigger bar going back in in relation to the top with the trigger, and how to get the holes aligned to insert the pin. I used some small pin punches but still could not get it aligned enough to tap the pin back in, Should the trigger be forward when you are reinstalling the trigger bar or pulled back and held. I did not have any luck either way.
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You must continue and drive the piston fully out to get the seal replaced …either a new seal from TR Robb, or the Leather seal unit from Knibbs…It will come, it sounds like the seal is getting caught up on the slot somewhere. Pull it out with a screwdriver in the cocking slot.
To replace the bar, do not replace the barrel …leave it off until you have the bar assembled.
Also no mainsprings in the gun.
Piston needs to be in half way with the slot facing to the front….
Next add a touch of grease to the bar spring so that it is tacky. I use Red and Tacky grease.
The spring can now be placed over the small spigot which is cast into the housing and should stay put.
Next pull the trigger and put an elastic band around the trigger and over the end of the beaver tail of the receiver….the trigger should now be in the fired position.
This will give you an extra hand free as it holds the trigger back….where it must be to reassemble.
Next place the Bar up into place, locating its little spigot inside the spring.
Now push in the Bar under spring tension against the spring until its hole aligns with the hole in the body.
I then push a 2mm pin punch through the holes to keep everything aligned while trying to tap the pin back in.
I also polish that pin down before re-assembly so it slides in nicely. It can be a loose fit as the grips hold it in place and it makes servicing easier than when its tight drive fit. Get that prepared for starting the rebuild.
Now pin is in, you can release the elastic…
Its a PITA but gets easy with practice and once completed with the mods, is among the top 3 best springer pistols of all time.
To replace the bar, do not replace the barrel …leave it off until you have the bar assembled.
Also no mainsprings in the gun.
Piston needs to be in half way with the slot facing to the front….
Next add a touch of grease to the bar spring so that it is tacky. I use Red and Tacky grease.
The spring can now be placed over the small spigot which is cast into the housing and should stay put.
Next pull the trigger and put an elastic band around the trigger and over the end of the beaver tail of the receiver….the trigger should now be in the fired position.
This will give you an extra hand free as it holds the trigger back….where it must be to reassemble.
Next place the Bar up into place, locating its little spigot inside the spring.
Now push in the Bar under spring tension against the spring until its hole aligns with the hole in the body.
I then push a 2mm pin punch through the holes to keep everything aligned while trying to tap the pin back in.
I also polish that pin down before re-assembly so it slides in nicely. It can be a loose fit as the grips hold it in place and it makes servicing easier than when its tight drive fit. Get that prepared for starting the rebuild.
Now pin is in, you can release the elastic…
Its a PITA but gets easy with practice and once completed with the mods, is among the top 3 best springer pistols of all time.
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I think I will await the seal from TR Robb, they have not been forthcoming about shipping, so no idea if it has been shipped although it was paid for several weeks ago. I do need to get a properly sized 2mm punch, as all I have is English inch punches. I will probably get a couple and put a little taper on the end so I can get them started easier. I had figured pulling the trigger might help, but was not sure, I did have the piston all the way up, so I guess I was wrong about that, and will move it half way down next time.
I it looks like the leather seal from Knibbs is not now available. So just pull on that piston via a screwdriver in the slot and pull it out. What position should the piston be in when replacing the barrel and cocking lever. I know I am asking a lot of questions, but this is new territory for me. I did notice a lot of dirt in the the cylinder area and top of piston, and tried to wipe out most. I think I will try to reassemble before the Robb and Protek parts get here for the experience, and may shoot it a bit until then.
Thanks
Jeff
I it looks like the leather seal from Knibbs is not now available. So just pull on that piston via a screwdriver in the slot and pull it out. What position should the piston be in when replacing the barrel and cocking lever. I know I am asking a lot of questions, but this is new territory for me. I did notice a lot of dirt in the the cylinder area and top of piston, and tried to wipe out most. I think I will try to reassemble before the Robb and Protek parts get here for the experience, and may shoot it a bit until then.
Thanks
Jeff
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No problems…Piston needs to be about half mast so that the sear groove is above the Bar sear (obviously or it will drop back in again) and high enough so that you can get the base of the cocking Pawl into the base of the slot of the piston. Ideally piston seal should be about 1 inch down from the TP bulkhead when you reassemble then.
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Ok, still having problem with terminology jumping around. What do you by cocking Pawl, the cocking lever. I see what a groove just below the piston that looks like a sear groove, which I assume is for the short lower leg of the trigger bar, which looks to have a sear end, to catch. Do you mean that the piston needs to be high enough so the end of the trigger bar does not catch the trigger bar? I am trying to use terminology on the diagram but keep hearing other descriptions for parts which is a little confusing. What do you mean by TP bulkhead?
I have worked on rimefire/centerfire rifles and handguns for years, but am finding that a lot of these airguns are far more complex and tricky to work on.
Not that I plan on touching them but what are the function of parts 16 and 17 do, labeled as locking pawl and trigger safety pawl
I have worked on rimefire/centerfire rifles and handguns for years, but am finding that a lot of these airguns are far more complex and tricky to work on.
Not that I plan on touching them but what are the function of parts 16 and 17 do, labeled as locking pawl and trigger safety pawl
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Yes the main cocking arm. (Pawl)
Obviously you do not want the sear groove of the piston anywhere close to the Bar sear or it just drop back into the groove. Shove the piston inside the chamber, say about 1 inch before it touches down the bottom of the chamber (Transfer port bulkhead)
Obviously you do not want the sear groove of the piston anywhere close to the Bar sear or it just drop back into the groove. Shove the piston inside the chamber, say about 1 inch before it touches down the bottom of the chamber (Transfer port bulkhead)
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Dragged this one up from the past...
There is a thread on the AGF (UK) that is discussing LP53 improvements, so I posted a link to this thread, then someone posted a link to the John Milewski articles. I can appreciate your frustration at the content!
As an aside, I found some remarkably similar posts to yours on the Airgun BBS forum by someone who went by the name "clarky" - not related to him (or her!) by any chance?
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It was me ….
Many of my original ideas went all the way back to the early days of Bowket and Pope (Who I worked with on Projects) The problem on there is a number have business interests in the trade. Mention a negative and you find yourself ganged up on by the little Clich followers and/or banned.
100s got banned for slights due to the overly sensitive moderation, incl Tuners with some nice ideas…so much so that they recently had an amnesty to remove these bans, but i would never re-join.
If you check the post history, you can see it was me that did all the original development on the 53 …(and the HW45) but then sold as his Engineers work in the article….mirroring all my specs…go figure.
I would not have minded so much, but the fact it was a poor kit, nowhere close to the quality and consideration i had put into the original spec, or matching the performance of mine. The subsequent AGW report was poor at best, with missed opportunity with pellet and accuracy testing etc.
The guide way to tight and the spring, the worst i've encountered.
Hopefully these aspects have improved.
My early work with Acetal began in the early 80s as a Materials Lab researcher, later sharing my findings with Hancock and Pope ….Trail blazing the use of Delrin in Airguns.
I never did fully support the use of Delrin Top hats back then, due to having to replace shooters breakages and the loss of piston weight reducing power.. an opinion which would also get you banned on there for upsetting the Tinbum crowd.
There is a deeper reason for my stance, but its an argument im tired of….but it was not commercial.
Clue….Make a gun nicer to shoot with light weight top hat versus the 1ftlb loss in velocity.
Think in terms of the pellet getting out the gun quicker, flatter trajectory, less time for wind effect….
A tad harsher to shoot maybe, but learn to shoot it and enjoy the other benefits.
Many Pro Sport shooters have switched back to the Steel Top hat for this reason.
For complete fairness, HW30s are unlikely to gain much power for going to steel and unlikely to break a Delrin Top hat. I am just saying, do not use Delrin as an automatic go to.
It depends on the gun and the weight of pellets used.
Many of my original ideas went all the way back to the early days of Bowket and Pope (Who I worked with on Projects) The problem on there is a number have business interests in the trade. Mention a negative and you find yourself ganged up on by the little Clich followers and/or banned.
100s got banned for slights due to the overly sensitive moderation, incl Tuners with some nice ideas…so much so that they recently had an amnesty to remove these bans, but i would never re-join.
If you check the post history, you can see it was me that did all the original development on the 53 …(and the HW45) but then sold as his Engineers work in the article….mirroring all my specs…go figure.
I would not have minded so much, but the fact it was a poor kit, nowhere close to the quality and consideration i had put into the original spec, or matching the performance of mine. The subsequent AGW report was poor at best, with missed opportunity with pellet and accuracy testing etc.
The guide way to tight and the spring, the worst i've encountered.
Hopefully these aspects have improved.
My early work with Acetal began in the early 80s as a Materials Lab researcher, later sharing my findings with Hancock and Pope ….Trail blazing the use of Delrin in Airguns.
I never did fully support the use of Delrin Top hats back then, due to having to replace shooters breakages and the loss of piston weight reducing power.. an opinion which would also get you banned on there for upsetting the Tinbum crowd.
There is a deeper reason for my stance, but its an argument im tired of….but it was not commercial.
Clue….Make a gun nicer to shoot with light weight top hat versus the 1ftlb loss in velocity.
Think in terms of the pellet getting out the gun quicker, flatter trajectory, less time for wind effect….
A tad harsher to shoot maybe, but learn to shoot it and enjoy the other benefits.
Many Pro Sport shooters have switched back to the Steel Top hat for this reason.
For complete fairness, HW30s are unlikely to gain much power for going to steel and unlikely to break a Delrin Top hat. I am just saying, do not use Delrin as an automatic go to.
It depends on the gun and the weight of pellets used.
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I suppose he unintentionally did you a favour by not giving you any credit for shoddy work!
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Your damn right
Tony Leach (hes better than me) often got lambasted the same, when he came out with his sleeveless piston….
We shared info and testing for a while, but he never took credit for anything that wasn't his…unlike some..
Tony Leach (hes better than me) often got lambasted the same, when he came out with his sleeveless piston….
We shared info and testing for a while, but he never took credit for anything that wasn't his…unlike some..
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The pdte seal came in from TR Robb today along with a couple of 2mm punches. I looked at them and did not realize they were so small so got my calipers out and measured the trigger bar pin. It measures 3.38mm so went back and ordered a 3mm and a 3.5mm. I am thinking I can turn down the larger to fit rather closely, and give the end a slight taper to aid in aligning the bar to the frame Still awaiting the Protek unit.
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The 2mm punch was recommended because despite being small compared to the pin, it allows sideways movement in the hole, allowing you control of tweaking the Bar until it aligns perfectly with the frame hole, then shoving in the pin….A bit of wriggle room being no bad thing in this case, but ive used 3mm pin punches also…You should not have any trouble either way.
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I tried some smaller inch sizes and never could get things aligned good enouth to get the pin started, just not enough hands. That's why I thought making a punch the same size and then a slight taper on the end I could get it started and get the factory pin going. I also rounded the end of the factory pin a bit, it did seem to have a rather sharp edge that may have been catching, and also touched the edges of the hole in the trigger bar with a tapered rotary file, nothing noticeable unless you look with a magnifying glass, but should help things start easier. Learning about this and accomplishing thre project has been one of the longest most time consuming I have attempted. Thanks Steveoo for all your guidance, without it would be nowhere.
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