We need a new Caliber for the new powerful rifles.

[ChRiSiS]

We haven’t even approached the most lame muzzleloader (black powder) or flintlock that easily shoots very heavy slugs 1,800-2,200fps. I’m all about innovation but we don’t have to stay in our lane, we are forced to by the laws of physics. It’s ok to dream or fantasize, I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting for a walk around airgun that’s going to be capable drilling holes at 200+ and can compete even with a lowly .22 magnum rim fire.

100% correct!

I don’t think most people realize just how different the pressures are in a Powder Burner compared to an Air Rifle. NMaximum pressures in an airgun are in the 2500-4500 PSI range (and actually lower than 4500 for most of them since we are talking about pressures in the gun, not the max in the bottle). Powder burners range from 30,000 to 60,000 PSI in the chamber! In addition, since the pressure is delivered by the powder in the cartridge, you get the same pressure every time you pull the trigger.

The other thing that most people are not taking in to consideration is that if we switch to bullets like the 6.5 Creedmoor we end up with bullets that are quite long for caliber. This increases the bearing surface of the bullet in the barrel and that will affect our ability to shoot those out of our air rifles at appropriate velocities even more than is currently the case with existing slugs.

 

[Sqwirl57]

I dont think anybody is missing anything here... the whole point of the thread (or so I thought) was to discuss possibilities of calibers with these new guns. Nobody is saying "let's throw a 140gr ELD match in a .264 airgun" here. 50-100gr though? Heck yes. Upgraded .22 M3s are already pushing subsonic .22lr numbers. I wouldn't doubt for a second that whatever FX releases as an M4 will improve upon that as is. I also wouldn't be suprised if the magazines were built to handle longer slugs either. If (and I mean if) they can manage something that can handle 3/4" ammo we are talking possibilities of 100gr .264 slugs. Personally I was thinking 50-60gr but if .257 can handle 80gr, why not go bigger? 150+fpe is far from out of the question with these newer guns...

 

[Emu]

100% correct!

I don’t think most people realize just how different the pressures are in a Powder Burner compared to an Air Rifle. NMaximum pressures in an airgun are in the 2500-4500 PSI range (and actually lower than 4500 for most of them since we are talking about pressures in the gun, not the max in the bottle). Powder burners range from 30,000 to 60,000 PSI in the chamber! In addition, since the pressure is delivered by the powder in the cartridge, you get the same pressure every time you pull the trigger.

The other thing that most people are not taking in to consideration is that if we switch to bullets like the 6.5 Creedmoor we end up with bullets that are quite long for caliber. This increases the bearing surface of the bullet in the barrel and that will affect our ability to shoot those out of our air rifles at appropriate velocities even more than is currently the case with existing slugs.

Should be a completly new design of the Caliber to be able to shoot slugs through specially designed barrels to improve performance at long distance (for air rifles) with the new rifles that can interchange calibres.

We all would win: Shooters, makers of rifles, makers of barrels and makers of slugs, all of us.

 

[Nico5999]

Keep at it, boys. When the word gets out to our elected representatives, they'll start scrreaming regulation.

Really getting tired of this sentiment...

The only thing that will stop the our "elected representatives" from regulating our sport is having enough people who give a damn so its politically viable to oppose regulation. You need to grow airgunning, not stifle it.

One of the ONLY reasons why certain modern sporting rifles haven't been outright banned is because there's a whole lot of people who give a damn and who OWN those things. States with the most regulation have the lowest rates of gun ownership pre and post regulation.

The previous assault weapons ban was passed in the 90's when the gun community was much, much different and very few people used AR's or other platforms compared to now. Gun culture was different. Way more Fuds back then...

Changing the culture and firearms proliferation has been the most effective tool for fighting regulation.

Regardless, these people hate us and our sport. We already have full auto .30 cals and rifles capable of taking big game. The pretext to regulate already exists. Shirking away from market advancement won't stop the regulators from regulating.

 

[Filnez]

With the inability to do higher pressure, in a situation similar to black powders limitations, it seems like going to larger heavier projectiles is the only way to gain more energy at further ranges.

I like airguns for their capacity to do things in lesser power situations where firearms are inefficient, too costly, ineffective, etc.

 

[Airgunmann]

I dont think anybody is missing anything here... the whole point of the thread (or so I thought) was to discuss possibilities of calibers with these new guns. Nobody is saying "let's throw a 140gr ELD match in a .264 airgun" here. 50-100gr though? Heck yes. Upgraded .22 M3s are already pushing subsonic .22lr numbers. I wouldn't doubt for a second that whatever FX releases as an M4 will improve upon that as is. I also wouldn't be suprised if the magazines were built to handle longer slugs either. If (and I mean if) they can manage something that can handle 3/4" ammo we are talking possibilities of 100gr .264 slugs. Personally I was thinking 50-60gr but if .257 can handle 80gr, why not go bigger? 150+fpe is far from out of the question with these newer guns...

My 257 talon was pushing 200 ft lbs

 

[Airgunmann]

I'm not understanding why people want more power 500 ft lb texan with hard cast can punch threw everything in north America if it were allowed granted it would have to be limited to 50 yards 200 yards is tough to do accurately with air gun slugs and to get moa out of it

 

[Airgunmann]

500 ft lbs is more than any bow and arrow makes and it's allowed for big game

 

[7Green]

I think we just love innovation and technology. Nothing wrong with that. I can't wait to see the next new thing and I know many others feel the same.

 

[Sqwirl57]

My 257 talon was pushing 200 ft lbs

Yeah I think I need a Talon or a Texan now. What kind of longer range accuracy are we talking here?

 

[elh0102]

I disagree in principle. This topic came up years ago with long distance service rifle competition, which morphed its way into various long range centerfire competition. IMO, the result of all that debate ended as you might expect. There are many calibers that can be developed into top shelf competitors. Ultimately, it's about 10% the rifle/cartridge, and 90% the shooter. I don't see it being any different with air rifles. Those who argue about equipment, will be left behind by those who practice!

 

[silvershooter589]

There air airguns pushing 72 cal 1200fps+

I think a discussion about other mid-size calibers which could have a clear advantage as tech and the sport evolves is worthy. This sounds like an idea pretty clearly for hunting and long distance shooting, both purposes being totally legitimate and not a big focus of those who seek to infringe.

Personally, I'd like to see more "heavy" pellets in 30 caliber. And not fully understanding why you wouldn't just shoot .30 if you wanted something bigger than .25... But the more options the merrier, if the market will support it.

 

[heavy-impact]

.30 cal is the way to go. No need to complicate things and drive the prices up. What we really need is airgun manufacturers making high power airguns that will accommodate longer projectiles. Most are still building for pellet length when we need room for up to 80gn slugs in .30 caliber and proper magazines to feed them.

 

[Sqwirl57]

There air airguns pushing 72 cal 1200fps+

I think a discussion about other mid-size calibers which could have a clear advantage as tech and the sport evolves is worthy. This sounds like an idea pretty clearly for hunting and long distance shooting, both purposes being totally legitimate and not a big focus of those who seek to infringe.

Personally, I'd like to see more "heavy" pellets in 30 caliber. And not fully understanding why you wouldn't just shoot .30 if you wanted something bigger than .25... But the more options the merrier, if the market will support it.

I think basically the same reason why 25 cal already exists. More energy than .22, with a higher shot count and cheaper ammo than .30

 

[7Green]

I think basically the same reason why 25 cal already exists. More energy than .22, with a higher shot count and cheaper ammo than .30

Hence why it would be cool to have the magical and mystical 6.5 or 7mm.

 

[Sqwirl57]

Hence why it would be cool to have the magical and mystical 6.5 or 7mm.

I agree. I said the exact same thing except replace the 7mm with 270 (close enough though!)

 

[DanT55]

Yep. You need a long skinny somewhat heavy projectile, maybe a boat tail. You also need velocity to really make those characteristics work and going into the transonic region with the current airgun pellet and slug designs dosen't help much with accuracy. Those projectiles would also need some new rifling considerations. Long heavy .22 or .25 may work well with current airgun tech/pressures (right weights needed for velocity) and with the right twist barrel.

 

[rcs9250]

Keep at it, boys. When the word gets out to our elected representatives, they'll start scrreaming regulation.

My thought exactly. Don’t know what’s the magic number that our “regulators” use to start “regulating”.

 

[Sqwirl57]

Hence why it would be cool to have the magical and mystical 6.5 or 7mm.

Actually I'm just now realizing that 6.5mm is actually a .257" and not a .264". Now I'm off to see why 6.5 Creedmoor is not called 6.7 Creedmoor

 

[Chukar60]

I saw the thread title and thought it would be about a big bore gun.
I don’t think there is enough room between 22, 25, 30 & 35 in moderate power for another caliber to provide much improvement. I could be wrong.
I was toying with purchasing a Air Force Texan carbine in 457. I came this I <>I close until the local store told me they were placing an order for FX guns and be darned if I didn’t order up a Crown MKII 600 mm in 26 and a heavy slug liner. Big bore will have to wait until the bruise on the gun fund has healed.