Christmas has come early , # fistbump Santa! I couldn't resist, the stock is exquisite, the machine work is un paralleled in my opinion. I present to you perfection in a box! 
Tuning Weihrauch hw77 special edition. 177
- Thread starter Pelletsmasher
- Start date
I liked the option of iron sights on the 77, and without the "moderator" on a 97 it squeezes a few extra fps ( debatable) as a toss up between the blue laminate 97, and the above. with the 77s heritage it was tough to choose between the 370 mm. karbine and 470 OG length , opted for the shorter barrel For decreased pellet dwell time.
I have read so many posts / articles I'm starting to get lost lol. LUBRICATION. There are lots or magic potions and witches brews , I would like some real world advice keeping on mind I am in N.H. so the climate can get
cold and I don't want my gun gummed up internally. I know not to let her freeze but if I do choose to go plinking or squirrel hunting in New England weather. What do I go with for piston lube and chamber lube,
What do I use to clean / protect the stock as not to cause delamination between layers? Any advice will be appreciated. PlinkOn!
I have read so many posts / articles I'm starting to get lost lol. LUBRICATION. There are lots or magic potions and witches brews , I would like some real world advice keeping on mind I am in N.H. so the climate can get
cold and I don't want my gun gummed up internally. I know not to let her freeze but if I do choose to go plinking or squirrel hunting in New England weather. What do I go with for piston lube and chamber lube, What do I use to clean / protect the stock as not to cause delamination between layers? Any advice will be appreciated. PlinkOn!
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Many have their own formulas and reasons for what works for them. I am a retired spring gun tuner, been tuning for over 30 years. I always believed in keeping things simple and easy. Always used stock piston seals except for really special ocassions! Silicone lube for seals such as Beemans has worked well for me all this time. Also have used DOW 111 silicone grease as spring dampening compound, some will tell you it is old school but still works well in all my tunes. Haved used my springers outdoirs all year round from freezing cold to hot summer heat with no issues. You will need to get new numbers for cold weather and again when temps get hot, air temps change everything, no way around it !! I also use Dow metal to metal moly paste on all metal working surfaces and it can be mixed with the Dow111 with no issues. All these recomendations are completely compatible with plastic parts on your gun and wont hurt your stock finnish. I use Beeswax furniture polish as a lube for my pellets, easy to use, no foul smell and is excellent for your stock!! I remove my action and seal the inside and outside with the beeswax which also us a natural water proofing material. Again the beeswax is an all natural product that wont harm seals, and is good for metal and wood finnishes. You can spend big bucks on all kinds of fancy lubes, compounds, sealers and whatever but in the end you will end up with pretty much the same performance. My custombtuned R1 for hunting was tuned 15 years ago, still shoots 825 fps with 14.3 crossman .22 pellets and will hold 3/4" group at 50 yds on a good day. Same for my TX200, 900 fps with AA 8.4 gn pellets and have shot 1/2" groups at 50 yds on good days as well. Firing behavior is excellent on both rifles, have had numerous compliments on how well they perform from those that have shot them. You have to decide on what you want to do with your gun, I can only make personal recomendations from my experiences. If you need any help, feel free to pm me......
i always just used a light paint brushing of m77 on metal to metal (like the piston and compression tube, spring, pivot joint washers) and that's IT. No silicone for the seals, those should be well enough on their own, or replaced imo.
My hw95s shot well summer and winter in missouri like that.
My hw95s shot well summer and winter in missouri like that.
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DO NOT put silicone anywhere inside the gun. It is a worthless lubricant for spring guns.
Stock seals are fine if they fit correctly, but many don't so a properly sized aftermarket seal is usually a safer "one and done" bet.
A good quality moly paste from ARH is all you need. Apply it properly (lightly) and you will get no temp issues. Most temp sensitivity issues are caused by piston seal fit, and not lubrication. If you use spring tar, use it very sparingly.
The stock needs nothing, it is sealed. Anything you put on it will just sit on top and wipe off on your face and clothes.
Wipe the metal down with your choice of oil or protectant. Doesn't matter what as long as it doesn't have salt in it. So anything short of bacon grease and you're good to go!
Stock seals are fine if they fit correctly, but many don't so a properly sized aftermarket seal is usually a safer "one and done" bet.
A good quality moly paste from ARH is all you need. Apply it properly (lightly) and you will get no temp issues. Most temp sensitivity issues are caused by piston seal fit, and not lubrication. If you use spring tar, use it very sparingly.
The stock needs nothing, it is sealed. Anything you put on it will just sit on top and wipe off on your face and clothes.
Wipe the metal down with your choice of oil or protectant. Doesn't matter what as long as it doesn't have salt in it. So anything short of bacon grease and you're good to go!
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I think if you are going to declare your experience as a "spring gun tuner" for 30 years, you shouldn't have a problem also posting your name so your previous happy customers could chime in and tell us how the silicone oil lubed guns are holding up for them.
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I’m at a loss here, the manual for my Benjamin Titan states in the maintenance section to place a drop of Crossman REMCOIL in the chamber every few hundred shots. I’ve been doing this for several years using silicone oil. Thousands of pellets and no problems.
Airgun Depot recommends both Crossman REMCOIL and RWS Chamber Lube for the internals of a spring gun as well as Umarex USA. My Titan has been working fuss free and I only recently replaced the piston seal as it started slamming into the end of the chamber. I also placed a couple of drops in the chamber of my LGV when it was ‘honking’ which fixed the problem without me having to tear it down.
So my question is who is correct as from my own experience I have had no issues with using silicon oil in the chambers of my air rifles.
Gary
Airgun Depot recommends both Crossman REMCOIL and RWS Chamber Lube for the internals of a spring gun as well as Umarex USA. My Titan has been working fuss free and I only recently replaced the piston seal as it started slamming into the end of the chamber. I also placed a couple of drops in the chamber of my LGV when it was ‘honking’ which fixed the problem without me having to tear it down.
So my question is who is correct as from my own experience I have had no issues with using silicon oil in the chambers of my air rifles.
Gary
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Ask yourself this:
Is there any other tuner that someone has ACTUALLY heard of, that uses silicone products inside a spring gun. Ask around. See what you find out.
Of course the manufacturer would tell you to take the easy route and squirt some stuff down into the gun rather than take it apart and lube it correctly. Taking it apart would void the warranty and cause more problems for them to have to deal with through warranty claims. Lubed right the first time (which most all manufacturers don't do) and the gun won't need anything till the spring breaks.
If it was right to begin with, you wouldn't have to keep adding the lube in there.
I don't care either way how you lube your gun. I encourage you to think for yourself here and always. Silicone is a worthless metal lubricant, that's fact, look it up. If you think it only stays where you put it, try it and take the gun apart later on. Especially so if its a liquid.
But if you could use a product that provides some "dampening effect" and also has lubricant properties, and has been used by a lot of "tuners" for ages, why not use it instead? Does it not seem like a better idea?
Again, ask around to people that actually tune guns with actual customers here or elsewhere what they use. Don't take my word for it.
Is there any other tuner that someone has ACTUALLY heard of, that uses silicone products inside a spring gun. Ask around. See what you find out.
Of course the manufacturer would tell you to take the easy route and squirt some stuff down into the gun rather than take it apart and lube it correctly. Taking it apart would void the warranty and cause more problems for them to have to deal with through warranty claims. Lubed right the first time (which most all manufacturers don't do) and the gun won't need anything till the spring breaks.
If it was right to begin with, you wouldn't have to keep adding the lube in there.
I don't care either way how you lube your gun. I encourage you to think for yourself here and always. Silicone is a worthless metal lubricant, that's fact, look it up. If you think it only stays where you put it, try it and take the gun apart later on. Especially so if its a liquid.
But if you could use a product that provides some "dampening effect" and also has lubricant properties, and has been used by a lot of "tuners" for ages, why not use it instead? Does it not seem like a better idea?
Again, ask around to people that actually tune guns with actual customers here or elsewhere what they use. Don't take my word for it.
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Thank you for your reply thumper. I have taken this Titan and a 177 Titan apart too many times to remember, all in the name of accuracy. I’ll keep using the silicon to smear around the piston seal when replaced and a drop in the chamber. I will say that using this technique I’ve never noticed any issues inside the rifles I have opened up. I use a small amount of molly on the back end of the piston and on the spring or ram, cocking shoe etc. As far as dampening effect a little twang or buzz has never worried me.
Thanks again.
Gary
Thanks again.
Gary
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This is the stuff I'm looking for. I have / had many types of guns since child hood. Honestly mist not taken care of as I Should have. That being said maybe it's time for the almost twin b3s I have ( antiques by now) to be " tuned me! Clean lube seals for they are in decent shape. One needs a new piston seal and a cleaning / lube. The other a barrel bending LOL 
,amd a good internal clean / lube.
When I have time , side by side tests with MAYBE 2 different lubricants. For some real world experience without voiding my lifetime warranty on the HW77. Sounds like a good project to post here!
Side note I heard good things about bum lube. Time for molybdenum research!
,amd a good internal clean / lube. When I have time , side by side tests with MAYBE 2 different lubricants. For some real world experience without voiding my lifetime warranty on the HW77. Sounds like a good project to post here!
Side note I heard good things about bum lube. Time for molybdenum research!
Upvote 0
I’m at a loss here, the manual for my Benjamin Titan states in the maintenance section to place a drop of Crossman REMCOIL in the chamber every few hundred shots. I’ve been doing this for several years using silicone oil. Thousands of pellets and no problems.
Airgun Depot recommends both Crossman REMCOIL and RWS Chamber Lube for the internals of a spring gun as well as Umarex USA. My Titan has been working fuss free and I only recently replaced the piston seal as it started slamming into the end of the chamber. I also placed a couple of drops in the chamber of my LGV when it was ‘honking’ which fixed the problem without me having to tear it down.
So my question is who is correct as from my own experience I have had no issues with using silicon oil in the chambers of my air rifles.
Gary
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The benjamin titan is a nitro powered gun. The difference lies in my springer has an extra chamber where the spring is that depending on manufacturer they could put on spring " tar" which you don't want to like destabilize with silicone. Someone chime in here if I am wrong please.
I think from my research that issues arise when too many, or conflicting lubricants are added to multi chambered guns like springes that require up to 3 internal lubricants. The internal lubes will mix together over time just by nature of engineering alone, hence unexpected viscosity or effect.
Also what I gathered is the good molybdenum takes the place of the spring tar eliminating one lube. And has the added side effect of keeping the piston seal relatively lubricated from the back side.possibly eliminating or reducing the need for like silicone?
I want someone to tell me if this is right.
The old leather piston springers use spring "tar". And we realistically don't use leather much anymore, just to replace antique / worn guns
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The topic of silicone chamber lube versus no lube is brought up from time to time. I'll just give an account of why I think it's good when used properly. When I bought my San Rafael Feinwerkbau 124D a little over a year ago it shot weighed JSB 8.44 gr pellets @ 775 fps. Applied 2 drops of RWS silicone chamber oil and got the usual couple dieseling cracks. After well over 100 shots I could blow through the barrel after firing and no smoke was present in the barrel meaning no oil detonation was taking place. Same pellet now @ 798 fps. After shooting it for awhile I added one drop of chamber lube. It was the first time I used chamber oil and the rifle didn't diesel! Not once ! I thought I didn't squeeze the bottle hard enough and failed to even get a drop in ! After 4-5 shots I blew through the barrel and noticed a very slight whisp of smoke. After 50 shots or so no smoke present in barrel. None ! Same pellet now @ 815 fps. I don't think the oil sealing the piston better has anything to do with the increase. Nor do I think detonation has anything to do with increase as well. The silicone molecules coating the piston chamber wall allow for faster piston travel due to less friction. That translates into greater pressure behind the pellet. Overuse of chamber oil does more harm than good but that doesn't mean it's not beneficial. After all, both Beeman and Diana recommended it for maintaining their spring piston airguns. I'll stick with one drop every 500 shots as recommended in my springers.
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