Welcome to AIRGUN NATION - please introduce yourself here!

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Hi folks!
My name is James, I'm a recently retired airline pilot and a lifelong gun collector from Texas. My wife and I raised 3 kids both in Alaska where my wife is from and here in my native state. The kids are all working on advanced degrees, so we got something right...more luck than anything!

My kids all grew up hunting and plinking here on the ranch, plus we hunted Alaska and Colorado, mostly. Elk and Caribou are two of my favorite meats!
I've never been into airguns, my kids all received a pump .22 as their first gun, as did I as a child. I had a Sheridan silver streak- I still have it in fact- but I bought it myself just for fun. I never had any real interest, and in fact I had no idea "adult" airguns existed, until after I retired.

As an airline pilot with seniority, you get a lot of time off. I have always built hotrods, so an old friend of mine and I opened a shop, building custom cars. It grew and became successful- I sold it to one of our employees after 9 years. Another of our employees has become a very close friend, and he is really into competition airgunning. I have a 1500 yard range on my place (I have a lot of long range guns, and I particularly like .50 BMG and .338 Lapua) and he asked if he could use it. I said of course, and imagine my surprise when he showed up with a truck full of "BB guns"!

After shooting them, I could see the appeal...much like small bore shooting, but even cheaper to support. He kept after me to buy an air rifle, so I bought a Black Ops sniper rifle to start, as I enjoyed the fact that it resembled my Barrett M82A1 a little. I still like the gun- it has flaws, but it's fun to shoot...I'm a gunsmith, so I tweaked a few things (mostly the trigger) and it's a joy to plink with.

I've added several more since, including a Gamo Swarm, a Hatsan Torpedo, a Diana AR8 ntec, a Crosman MTR77 (just for fun) and most recently, since my buddy (his name is Frank) is crazy about PCP guns, an Air Arms Galahad, in black. A very cool looking bull pup, but this leads me to a question that has been driving me crazy. What is the draw of these PCP guns? It's a pain to get them filled to 3000 psi, they are pretty expensive (Frank has a connection and I still paid almost $1100) and I see no advantage. Power is a less-than-jaw-dropping 780 fps, I bought it in .25, which doesn't deliver mind numbing downrange energy...so, why? It's accurate, but so are the rest...in fact, my Black ops (with a better scope) is extremely accurate, and it's the cheapest airgun I own. (Well, I think the MTR77 was, but you see what I mean) OK, the 10 round mag is nice, but then I don't have to go fill the others to 3000 psi every time I go shooting, either. I SORT of get the appeal of the big bore PCP guns, a .45 caliber airgun is rather cool...but I now own a .25 caliber airgun not quite as powerful as my old silver streak, that I paid over a grand for. I've put about 50 rounds downrange, and...it's just a pellet gun. Am I missing something? Honestly, I enjoy shooting the Black ops or the MTR77 more than I enjoy the Galahad. I feel like I have missed a point somewhere.

I didn't mean to turn my Howdy into a question fest, sorry! I've been thinking about this lately, and Frank is no help- he is definitely on the airgun train. Questioning their usefulness in any way is blasphemy, lol...

I hope to get to know you all! 

Cheers!
 
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Hi James,and Welcome here.
I think the appeal of owning an airgun is,the chance to shoot them in our own backyards in a daily basis without getting the neighbors alarmed by the noises .
Now,keep in mind that most people don't have type of backyard that you have there !
Also,the cost of the pellets(in the US at least ) is way much cheaper than the ammo for the PB's
Most people use air tanks(like a scuba tank) ,with the proper line attachments to fill their guns,and that makes shooting AG's more pleasant .
We fill the air tanks either form a scuba/paintball shops,or,with our own high pressure compressors .
Some HPA compressors are now ''kind of affordable'' to buy if not air sources are available close by .
The big bores AG is another story ,and ,some people follow the "herd mentality" ,if you know what I mean .
"Hope you enjoy Flying with us ".
 
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Hello James .. welcome to the world of AG I too am new and I truly understand your question. So far I've stayed with my Gamo Swarm which is my first break barrel and shooting exclusively WalMart Crossman primiers HP and Gamo red fire they are the only one avail around here if I wanted H&N or JSB they have to be ordered online. I've been spoiled by its 10 round magazine and I cannot think I will buy another break barrel that's not a repeater and the only other available break barrel is the Hatsan Proxima (which WILL BE my next AG) as for considering a PCP I think I'l pass on them due to its costly ancillary equipment and not to mention the PCP I like is the Umarex Gauntlet and its back ordered till the end of time.
 
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Hi and thanks for the replies! I get the appeal of airguns, it's the PCP aspect that I feel I am missing out on. I guess I just don't see the advantage in having a gun that has a limited number of shots before it must be taken back to the house or at least pumped on with a hand pump for 20-30 minutes before it can be fired again...much like electric cars, they might be fine for going 200 miles, even fast...but make it 300 miles and it will add 8 hours to the trip! (Recharge) (This is a generalization, obviously)
If you needed to fire say, 120 rounds, quickly---- not with my Galahad, you'd be better off with a break barrel- after about 60, I'd have to stop and pump the damned thing back up! Depending on where we were, that could take awhile or be problematic. (I'm guessing at numbers, I haven't really figured out how many shots per fill I get yet, I've only had it since Monday.) Maybe I'll get it after listening/watching you folks for awhile...there certainly are a lot of folks who like them!
 
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Hey James,
Mike Clark here. Welcome to the forum.
You are experiencing a classic PCP/ Springer "which one to use problem we all have pondered. 
Some of us can grab a can of pellets and a springer and be very accurate in the field. That's because we learned how to shoot a springer. It takes time to learn and alot of practice. I've killed thousands of California ground squirrels with my .22 R1/V-Mach and my .20 Hw97k.
Then the "Dark-Side" pulled me into it's tank and now i'm shooting PCP's. They are lighter to carry, easier to shoot and are more accurate at longer ranges than the springers. But they do have limited shots per fill however that can be negated by a Pigmy bottle that is carried in my day pack. 
I still hunt my springers but not as much as my PCP's.
Great sport, enjoy!
Later ,
Mike
 
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Thanks for the reply, Mike! I don't think I'll be doing any airgun hunting, I tend to stick to larger animals- when I do hunt smaller game it's archery or handguns for me. But I enjoy making reactive targets of all types in my shop, I'm in the process of building a very involved shooting course for airguns that starts at 7 yards and moves out, eventually, to 100 yards. I have a lot of fun building the range and inviting folks over to compete on it- and enjoy some Texas BBQ! Typically I set up for small bore and big bore stuff both, but I'm building an entire...course, if you will, designed around airguns specifically. Sort of a six flags for airguns, you could say.
I don't understand why everyone talks about springers being difficult to shoot...? It's a gun, like any other. Maintain your sight picture as you squeeze the trigger, shooting 101. I have to chuckle when I hear air gunners talking about recoil...I have a .50 BMG they need to meet, lol.

I guess I'll figure it all out. I'm trying to decide if it's more a matter of many folks having very little experience with actual firearms, or if there is something more here that I am so far unaware of. My only real contact in the airgun "world" is Frank, and he's a great guy but not really a ponderer, if you follow. I'm excited to get more opinions and experiences from all sorts of folks here.
 
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James I'm with you although I'm not an avid hunter but I do hunt with my father and brothers on occasion and I use my AG mainly for plinking @ 30yrds its not that I don't have any pest around my fathers ranch they are taken care of by the stable cats and "friendly" Black snakes (pantherophis obsoletus) sorry I just had to show off my kollege ejumakation :) I've have not shot a springer AG yet. 
 
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Hi all, Howard (Aka, Yoopper) here. I've been shooting PCP air guns for about a year now and continue to be amazed at their accuracy and precision. I built my own last year, a .45 cal PCP out of various junk like an old Mag Light, Mauser trigger, muzzleloader barrel, etc. The design was a crude copy of the Air Force Talon. I liked it so much I bought a A.F. Talon P.
What I'd like to say to the other newbies like me is this; no matter what your preferences in equipment, there is always room for experimentation and other's opinions. Too many times I've been told; "just buy one, that won't work or you'll shoot your eye out", Trying , tinkering and enjoyment is what's really important. 
 
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lol Farrah- I have a BS in evolutionary biology and I earned a Masters in herpetology, my thesis was on Varanids. I'm especially into varanus albigularis ionidesi. I bred them, as well as  Python bivittatus, for years. Your pantherophis obsoletus made me feel right at home! :)

Thanks Howard, I couldn't agree more. I have a 60 x 120 shop that is a fully outfitted machine, welding, and wood shop, as well as a pretty well outfitted fabrication shop. I am a big believer in making a better version myself, or at the very least "hotrodding" an existing design. I build hotrods, as well as sport bikes, guns, and just lately, turbine engines.


Cheers guys! This is an interesting place!

 
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Hello, James,
I started shooting air rifles about 10 years, starting with springers. After a good bit of backyard and range plinking, I was pretty sure that I was a crack shot. Started field target shooting, was embarrassed. Bought an expensive springer (TX200) and did somewhat better, but still not competitive. Changed to a Marauder, had new barrel installed, better scope. Slowly got better. If you shoot FT competition, you may find that more complex ranging and accuracy under varied shooting conditions is more difficult, and I am sure that it takes more skill and practice to shoot a springer, they are almost always a ways behind the scores of the best PCP shooters. The reaction of a relaxing, uncoiling spring when you pull the trigger (before it leaves the barrel) is a factor that is very difficult to control in even the best equipment. 

Good luck and hope you enjoy the sport, it has a lot of complexity and is rewarding (and sometimes frustrating).

Jerry
 
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Thanks Jerry! I currently compete at 1000 yards and in cowboy action shooting, and I competed in IPSC when I was younger, so I'm a seasoned competitor, but I'm puzzled by this perceived recoil problem with springers (which I assume includes nitro piston/air strut guns?). No airgun even comes close to the recoil of an actual firearm (Other than small bore- typically .22) and firearms are shot very very accurately routinely.

I am enjoying the passion I hear from everyone involved in the sport, that is a fine and rare thing these days. I think it's an interesting transition from my world in firearms to this pneumatic world. There is something fascinating about not requiring an explosive or incendiary propellant to send a round downrange, I must admit!

Cheers!
 
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A little (very little) delayed responding to this thread. I began my quest for an airgun about a month ago and quickly decided on an FX Wildcat. Added a few niceties and a 100 cu/ft Omega tank so I'm about done spending... I had no idea just how much I'd end up spending when this began.

My history... Left college after three years and entered the US Air Force. Spent an enjoyable 20 years before retiring. 12 1/2 years in England, 3 in Germany, 1 in California, and finally 3 in Florida. Graduated from the University of Miami while completing my service commitment. Spent the following 19 years as an operations manager in the trucking industry, before moving on to being a dispatcher and EMT. Retired for good in 2006 and moved from central NJ to the NY/VT border. 

Owned a few guns including my favorite, a Cooper Varmint .204 (Swarovski scope). Our home burned to the ground in February 2015. so all we had was lost. Only my wife, our dog, and myself (in pajamas) got out. Rebuilt in late 2015 and began again. Learning how to shoot all over again now.


 
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Hello, James,

It's not the recoil of the gunstock impacting your shoulder, it's the small motions of the gun between the time you pull the trigger, and the pellet exits the barrel. A high quality springer that has been "tuned" will exhibit less of such motion, but it is there for all of them. There may be no simple way to illustrate the timing of all of what happens when you fire a springer...imagine the difference, you fire a PCP, a small hammer pops a spring loaded valve, and the pressurized air is released through a transfer port, and that air accelerates the pellet. Not much inertia involved in the firing cycle of that mechanism. With a springer, your trigger actuates a sear, and a big spring is released, pushing a relatively heavy piston back through a cylinder which creates the air pressure to accelerate the pellet. It's the mechanical action of the large spring and piston that will jolt the gun. Your hold on the springer is important, you don't want to hold too tightly, or in the wrong places. Experienced springer shooters will find the best place to support the forestock, and the right way to hold the wrist. It's normally better to allow the rifle to move without much effort to "control" it. 

PCP rifles are described as being "not hold sensitive", and are demonstrably less affected by the mechanical cycle described. You can pretty much hold a PCP any way you like, and the "feel" of a good PCP is just dead. Pull the trigger, the pellet flies. I'm used to that, and recently shot a match with a (nice) springer. Seemed like that HW97 jumped violently when it was fired, and I missed a bunch of targets. 

On top of that, you can set up a .177 PCP rifle to give 20 FPE with a 10.3 grain pellet. If you tried to get that much energy with a springer, it would be relatively inaccurate. Most competitive springer shooters set their rifles for about 12 FPE with 8.4 grain pellets. The PCP pellet trajectory is flatter, and it does better in wind, as well. The loopier trajectory of the slower pellet means that a springer shooter must range every shot with great accuracy, and that flatter trajectory is more forgiving when you think that 45 yd target is really 39 yards.

The accuracy required to hit a field target is about 2 MOA, for both the 10 min and 55 yard max range targets. And assuming you (and your gun) can always hold for 2 MOA, you will need to range properly to hold over (sometimes under) depending on your trajectory and distance. Experienced FT competitors will hit 90% or more of the targets in a typical match. In my experience, PCP shooters hit 10-20% more targets than spring shooters in matches.

Now, all that said - there are quite a few shooters who know all that, and still prefer to shoot the springers. A few of them have the tricky rifle setup, the knowledge and skill to be very close to the PCP shooters. My hat is off to them, and they deserve recognition for it. But mostly, us PCP shooters (even with lower skill and lesser equipment) outshoot the guys with springers.
 
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Very well organized and informational site Michael and Ted !!!

My name is Bobby and I live in Arizona. Love the outdoors and have been shooting and working on airguns since 1975. Always looking for that "perfect" airgun. I have owned a large number and still own a few that are pretty good. Love to shoot....period.... but airguns are my favorite. Introduced a couple years ago to the Impact and long range precision shooting... an eye opener. Airguns that will outshoot a good majority of firearms at 100 yards is kind of crazy.

Still looking for that "perfect" rifle but there are more now that are pretty close than ever before :)

BC
 
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Wow, guys...first, Quoddy, I'm with you 100% on the expense of this sport, it isn't terribly expensive compared to my other hobbies, really, but in the 7 months or so I have been in the sport I have spent almost $5K, far more than I ever thought I would spend on air rifles...8 months ago they were children's toys! It's crazy how my views have changed.
I spent almost 14 years in the Air Force after completing OTS and UPT, AFSC 11FX. I spent a great portion of my time with the 65th AGRS at Nellis. Good times, often missed.
I'm sorry to hear about your fire, that is tough. When we lived in Alaska we had a partial house fire, about $50K in damages and many things gone forever, it is a truly terrible feeling. But you and yours survived, and what can be built can be rebuilt. Check six, my friend.

Pelletgage- Thank you for the tips and info, I am currently a sponge and I appreciate everyone being so willing to share! The vibe here is very good. As for the recoil, my father taught me to shoot from a very young age, and he also taught me to fly, drive, back a trailer, you name it. Ranch hands are expensive, so ranchers have as many kids as they can, lol. . His favorite advice in either- or any other- arena was "Do whatever it takes to make the shot/plane/tractor/truck/trailer go where you need it to go. Don't worry about it, don't whine about it, don't think about it. Just make it happen."
I don't think or even really notice the recoil from a .50 or a shotgun or an air rifle, due to his coaching...I just make the shot. I guess others perceive recoil differently, and I have the benefit of a lifetime of shooting, police, military and particularly SWAT training, I suppose. After a few shots I just subconsciously adjust for whatever I need to. I don't feel that springers offer any challenge that other rifles don't offer- perhaps somewhat different, but still just variables to be adjusted for, which is...well, shooting, right? :) Now a PCP, with probably less recoil than any projectile launcher available, seems to be the odd man out, to me...my Galahad, tuned down a bit, has less recoil than a Daisy red ryder, I believe! 

Thanks Bobby! Good luck in your quest for the perfect gun...I've been looking for about 40 years. I think the Glock comes close as a pistol, the MP5 as a subgun/CQB weapon, the 12 ga as a versatile weapon, the remington tactical 700 chassis for a sniper rifle, and the AR15/M16/M4 for the modular combat rifle...how to combine them all into one perfect gun is...well, a bit of a trick, lol.

Cheers, all!
James
 
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James, Quoddy AIM HIGH !! like you guys I came from the centerline fire of the fence and just like the USMC getting the hand-me-downs from the Army I got my AR15/9mm/12ga from my brothers after they got the latest bling bling and gave me theirs. Although its a huge difference going from a knowed distance range to an action stage like 3 gun I manage to be respectable and on some occasion beat my siblings. I like you James always taking advice and critique from my betters and serve me well during my time in Afghanistan as part of the Female Engagement Team and on several occasion patrolled with elite Army Rangers and Gung Ho Marines :) after I got out I applied for the police/sheriff dept and actually passed with flying colors during the physical and interview (psych) process but fate has it I have to take care of my family ranch due to my father illness.

Semper Fidelis y'all :)
 
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Hey James,
I bet that .50 has quite the kick!
Springer's recoils are different than "normal" recoil. First it goes forward , as the piston is propel forward, then backward as the pellet leaves the barrel. With all the movement, it's hard to remain on the target, especially with "magnum" springer's with long strokes. These guns will tear up the best of scopes, they must be Springer's rated. Don't waste a good firearm scope on a Springer because it will ruin it.
With the need to learn how to shoot a Springer accurately, which takes time , alot of newbie's get frustrated and pick up PCP's because they have a more familiar recoil, simailar to firearms.
If you do look into springer's, may I suggest an under-lever or side-lever cocking gun. Unlike a break barrel , the barrel does not move. More consistent .
Airgun Shooting 101
Cheers,
Mike
 
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Thanks Farrah, you're a badass, girl! :) SF!

Mike, I have already purchased a stable full of "springers" and one PCP, if folks hadn't told me springers were hard to shoot I would never have known, lol. I do feel the rather odd recoil they produce, but again, it is simply something to be adjusted for, like a strong crosswind while landing an aircraft..it's just part of the game.

When people say "springers", I assume the air strut types, "nitro piston", are lumped in?


I posted my purchases so far in my introduction, but I'll copy and paste them here- 
Black Ops sniper rifle to start, Gamo Swarm, a Hatsan Torpedo, a Diana AR8 ntec, a Crosman MTR77 (just for fun) and most recently, since my buddy (his name is Frank) is crazy about PCP guns, an Air Arms Galahad (I already had a Sheridan Silver Streak from my misspent youth)

I've had the Galahad since last Monday. So I am a "noob" to PCP's in a big way! I finally spent some real alone quality time with the gun Saturday morning, and began to see the logic and developed a bit of a crush on the thing...prior to that, I was really questioning whether I wanted to continue in the sport. They sort of creep up on you, don't they? :)
 
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Howdy James, your right it does creep up on a person, I just got into airguns this last Spring due to health reasons but I still get out and shoot my AR's and the Tavor X95 once in awhile but I’ve had to stop shooting my bigger bores, 338,45-70, and a few others,i do still shoot my 6.5 Creedmoor long range but I never thought I would spend as much as I have on airguns but it crept up on me.
I have a air compressor now plus a couple air tanks and I just spent alot on a RAW .357 not to mention I just bought a Wildcat Patriot then throw in the other 6 PCPs I have plus scopes,mounts,bipods and it gets expensive but there is something about shooting PCPs or Springers that gets into a person, hard to explain I guess. I have other hobbies that are expensive to do but Airguns have take me in and I’m addicted..Enjoy and have fun.

Jim F.
 
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HI, i'm Topshot and have been fascinated by airguns since i was a young boy, receiving my first airgun when i was 8 or 9 years old as a Christmas present. it was a multi-pump crossman and i used it nearly every day for target shooting for many years. Now, as an adult, I own a break barrel Hatsan 125 and a Hatsan Galatian PCP air rifle, both .177 cal. I have not shot the Hatsan Galatian yet as it is new to me and i don't have all the equipment to charge it, and so it sits in its case waiting for the day when i will have the time to play with it, and teach my kids to shoot as well.
 
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