I just saw this topic the other day, and found it very curious.
I have never heard of this before.
Has anyone ever used this method for their scopes?
I have never heard of this before.
Has anyone ever used this method for their scopes?
Wet Mounting a Scope
- Thread starter manabeknives
- Start date
Very interesting! I would think the wet mount creates a super thin film that "cushions"/fills in some of the manufacturing tolerance deviations between the rings and rail surfaces during a shot cycle from what I am understanding.
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hurts my head to listen to him, might be his voice or just the recording,,,
could use a visual or a written description, but the audio is a no go for me
could use a visual or a written description, but the audio is a no go for me
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Interesting. Spuhr (the logo on the shirt) is a scope mount manufacturer too.
I routinely lubricate the screw threads on all of my mountings but never thought about the rail.
Thanks for the share, Mike!
mike
I routinely lubricate the screw threads on all of my mountings but never thought about the rail.
Thanks for the share, Mike!
mike
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What Revoman said, interesting. Giving it some thought I can kind of understand that by reducing friction the ring mount, hypothetically, might change the metal of the 2 surfaces from "galling" (ring mount against rail) against each other to mating surface to surface more evenly. Like I said, hypothetically but until I could compare don't know if I'm a believer. I'm not about to futz with my perfectly zeroed guns & scopes just to satisfy a slight curiosity.
You guys know I'm not a competitive shooter so what's the difference if I hit a squirrel in the eye every time or the head in general every time.
You guys know I'm not a competitive shooter so what's the difference if I hit a squirrel in the eye every time or the head in general every time.
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Better videos on the topic from Area419, short and long versions.
tl;dr
Lubricate the rail mating surfaces so friction does not prevent proper mating of the mount to picatinny angled surfaces. Do not lubricate the inside of the rings or the screws. Loctite or any other liquid will mess up your screw torque specs. Also I can't imagine how a lubricated screw wouldn't back out with a quickness. The guy in the OP video at the end recommends lubricating the screws... I can't find anyone of merit that agrees with that.
tl;dr
Lubricate the rail mating surfaces so friction does not prevent proper mating of the mount to picatinny angled surfaces. Do not lubricate the inside of the rings or the screws. Loctite or any other liquid will mess up your screw torque specs. Also I can't imagine how a lubricated screw wouldn't back out with a quickness. The guy in the OP video at the end recommends lubricating the screws... I can't find anyone of merit that agrees with that.
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I do apply oil to the mounting parts and surfaces, not only for water protection but to make them slippery so they align with each other when torqued down. It is a trick I discovered mounting rings with two loose clamps, requiring the three loose parts to all shift into place as they are torqued.
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I mounted some BKLs on a Diana dovetail last night. The BKLs audibly flexed and settled into the rails grooves. I didn’t enjoy it but it seemed fine.
If I suspected any deficiencies in the machined surfaces I would no oil. Oil films squeeze out within a few seconds and the film is hundreds of times thinner than any machined finish.
Like all clamped joints, adding oil increases the amount of clamping force required to achieve the same holding power as dry. I might oil the screw threads but I will never lubricate the clamped surfaces unless the instructions say it was designed for it.
It is possible to bed the rings using epoxy. This can definitely make up for misalignment and imperfect machining. I haven’t had a need yet.
Last but not least is a compliant material. Burris Signature rings are ideal in my book. They fit any scope tune perfectly without damage and without misalignment with some compliance to handle thermal growth. They’ve always held zero too.
If I suspected any deficiencies in the machined surfaces I would no oil. Oil films squeeze out within a few seconds and the film is hundreds of times thinner than any machined finish.
Like all clamped joints, adding oil increases the amount of clamping force required to achieve the same holding power as dry. I might oil the screw threads but I will never lubricate the clamped surfaces unless the instructions say it was designed for it.
It is possible to bed the rings using epoxy. This can definitely make up for misalignment and imperfect machining. I haven’t had a need yet.
Last but not least is a compliant material. Burris Signature rings are ideal in my book. They fit any scope tune perfectly without damage and without misalignment with some compliance to handle thermal growth. They’ve always held zero too.
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No binding or galling during torquing of the mounting screws is my reason for mildly lubricating them. None have come loose yet.
My .2¢
mike
My .2¢
mike
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@dgeesaman These Burris XTR Signature rings are where I discovered that a bit of light gun oil or a wet wipe-down with Balistol on the mating surfaces, especially on the four beveled surfaces, before assembly are better than a dry initial torque job (on a picatinny rail). Because of the nature of the two floating clamps on each side of the ring body and clamping onto a picatinny rail, they don't always clamp down spaced evenly, so the scope ring and scope tube alignment with the centerline of the rail can favor one side over the other at re-assembly based on initial side clamping force due to a burr, metal on metal drag, ect.
You'll notice the misalignment if you remove the scope and rings and then simply replace them, as it shows up in a fairly large windage change. They don't have any semblance in repeated assembly for windage because of their design, but the light oil and jostling them back and forth while pushing up against the rail lug to "find center" as they are initially torqued does in fact help with better repeated alignment. As to their function as adjustable and non-marring rings, they are top shelf. I just do not understand Burris' logic behind not making one side a solid machined dovetail to standard picatinny rail "mil specs," aside from cheaper price to manufacture that is.
When torturing any clamping device (bolt, nut, screw, ect) and using a wetted thread surface like oil or Loctite, the standardized torqing spec is actually decreased because clamping force is increased because of the ease in sliding surfaces (unless called out to be lubed by the manufacturer). Especially so on lubed tiny gun screws.
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I think my takeaway from the whole video is if you have a rifle where losing zero costs you kills or scoring points, you might consider testing your scope mount against a little 'abuse' to see if the zero shifts. If it does you might consider trying different mounts and/or trying lubricant between the picatinny and the ring bases.
Wet mounting might solve it but now I really want to know which commercial mount didn't exhibit the POI shift. Because that design is a better answer still.
Wet mounting might solve it but now I really want to know which commercial mount didn't exhibit the POI shift. Because that design is a better answer still.
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"if you have a rifle where losing zero costs you kills or scoring points..."
You have a stack up tolerance problem between your parts.
I am dual purposing my X50T scope between rifles, mounted on a ARC (American Rifle Co) single piece 20 MOA ring.
My .25 cal Impact MK2 shooting 50-100 meter rings, and a Win 308 f-class shooting 200-300-500-800 rings.
A jump between two dope cards from 100 to 200 is 19 clicks elevation, no L-R @300.
And I make a quick jump there and back by measuring the turret height with a digital caliper.
You have a stack up tolerance problem between your parts.
I am dual purposing my X50T scope between rifles, mounted on a ARC (American Rifle Co) single piece 20 MOA ring.
My .25 cal Impact MK2 shooting 50-100 meter rings, and a Win 308 f-class shooting 200-300-500-800 rings.
A jump between two dope cards from 100 to 200 is 19 clicks elevation, no L-R @300.
And I make a quick jump there and back by measuring the turret height with a digital caliper.
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In the video, they suggest a CLP or grease
I sprayed some CLP to bottoms of the mounts before attaching to the rail
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I sent that video to a friend of mine that shoots competitively. He says everybody in his club wet mounts their scopes. These guys have thousands and thousands of dollars tied up in their equipment. And most all of them use spuhr mounts on their rifles.
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So much more to learn
this has been a strange one to me ..how many people know/don't know about this.
I did find it funny that when the guy did a slap in the opposite direction, it went back to true
but how would you know a shift is happening without the measuring equipment?
i'm guessing this is more for high recoil situations, but stuff gets tossed around somettimes
takes a second to do, and you're not buying anything so why not?
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