There seems to be a wide definition of the term "accurate". Mine was generally able to shoot what I was aiming at. That was good enough. That might explain why I missed as much as I did. Then I started my project and now it means anything from shooting a 12" target in a "run and gun" application to precision shooting a dime at 100 yards to precision shooting a fly at 2 yards. What are your definitions of accurate? How does your targeting change according to your target? This should be a good conversation based on how and what you are using your sight for.
What do you consider accurate?
- Thread starter MRaccurate
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I think the 30 yard challenge is a great way to figure out how accurate your guns are. I consider a score of over 180 (out of 200) to be a very accurate gun and a score over 190 to be a great gun. But it's a bit tricky because how many targets you shoot, how good I get at reading wind, and how high a magnification the scope has all seem to be factors beyond the gun/barrel accuracy. I think a gun which only routinely shoots in the 150s is still accurate, especially if it is wearing a low powered scope. 150 means averaging 7.5 for the 20 shots which means you got your pellet within about 1/4 inch of the bullseye at 30 yards for each of 20 shots. Experience has proven to me that accuracy around 150 still does a nice job killing squirrels.
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I shoot paper for the most part. So to me, most of the time, shooting the center is accurate. It may be 10 meters or 100 yards but the 10 is it. So small tight groups that I can drop on a 10.
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ThomasT
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Hello @MRaccurate
Like you have already noted, the word “accurate” is very subjective in relationship to Airgun shooting. It also depends on the individual own interpretation. As a small game hunter you will most likely be shooting at various distance up to the limit of the kill ability of the gun. If you are hitting and killing 75% of the critters that you shoot at, then you would say the gun is very accurate also taking into consideration the human element.
However if you are shooting paper targets and if you are like me, then the gun must hit the bulls eye every time to be considered “accurate”. There is no such thing as a “close miss” in target shooting.
ThomasT
Like you have already noted, the word “accurate” is very subjective in relationship to Airgun shooting. It also depends on the individual own interpretation. As a small game hunter you will most likely be shooting at various distance up to the limit of the kill ability of the gun. If you are hitting and killing 75% of the critters that you shoot at, then you would say the gun is very accurate also taking into consideration the human element.
However if you are shooting paper targets and if you are like me, then the gun must hit the bulls eye every time to be considered “accurate”. There is no such thing as a “close miss” in target shooting.
ThomasT
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I think a lot of what you speak of here falls beyond an accurate gun, and into the Skillful Shooter range. Yes, an accurate gun is a must, but most of these disciplines require skill.
When I think of just the gun itself, I think of repeatability. Will it keep it’s POI day after day? Practically hitting the same POA regardless of time of day, temperature, etc. That, to me is how I define accuracy. I mainly shoot in my yard at either paper or critters, and usually between 15 and 35 yards, off a bench. So, not a great deal of skill needed. However, if I’m going to shoot a squirrel, a week after I took my last shot, I don’t want a gun with a flimsy barrel that shifts POI each time you look at it too hard.
I have done a couple videos highlighting a particular gun’s ability to do just this over an entire month. Here’s the one I did with the Taipan Shorty.
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I'm disappointed in the scope accuracy of my break barrel Beeman R9 177cal. Love the trigger pull but with age my eyesight isn't good enough for open sights anymore. I know my Hawke scope and mounts aren't the problem, but the gun won't hold zero with time after 15 shots it changes. I used to light stick matches at 25 yards with my RWS but over the years life changes and the need for a scope is there. Can anyone give me advice on what I should be looking at for the true last air rifle I need for shooting sparrows as I sit on my porch?
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My first air rifle (that was good) was a .25 marauder and it could put a full magazine into a quarter size bull at 40 yards.
That was really accurate I thought.
Then I got a S200 in .177 and it could put them all into a dime sized bull at that distance.
Now I have a RedWolf .177 that will literally put them all into a ragged hole at 40 yards.
The .25 marauder could deliver two inch groups at 100 yards consistently, and sometimes closer to an inch.
The RedWolf can consistently shoot well under an inch at 100 yards.
My definition of accurate would be a rifle or pistol that is capable of shooting repeatable one ragged hole five shot groups at 30 yards.
And shooting under an inch at 100 yards consistently for the rifle.
And for 10 yards the five shot group needs to be one black hole that’s very close to the size of the pellet being shot!
Accurate to me at 10 yards is being able to head-shoot flys lol!
But it’s just my opinion, and I’m obsessed with one hole groups.
You definitely don’t need to cut cards to have a ball shooting!
Here’s the best five shot group I’ve ever done with any rifle, 130 yards with my Rapid .20 caliber.
And the fly practice sheet is at 10 yards using my FWB300 mini .177 scoped.
I’m so impressed with this FWB300, just incredible what a springer is capable of!
Interesting post, will be fun to follow this.
That was really accurate I thought.
Then I got a S200 in .177 and it could put them all into a dime sized bull at that distance.
Now I have a RedWolf .177 that will literally put them all into a ragged hole at 40 yards.
The .25 marauder could deliver two inch groups at 100 yards consistently, and sometimes closer to an inch.
The RedWolf can consistently shoot well under an inch at 100 yards.
My definition of accurate would be a rifle or pistol that is capable of shooting repeatable one ragged hole five shot groups at 30 yards.
And shooting under an inch at 100 yards consistently for the rifle.
And for 10 yards the five shot group needs to be one black hole that’s very close to the size of the pellet being shot!
Accurate to me at 10 yards is being able to head-shoot flys lol!
But it’s just my opinion, and I’m obsessed with one hole groups.
You definitely don’t need to cut cards to have a ball shooting!
Here’s the best five shot group I’ve ever done with any rifle, 130 yards with my Rapid .20 caliber.
And the fly practice sheet is at 10 yards using my FWB300 mini .177 scoped.
I’m so impressed with this FWB300, just incredible what a springer is capable of!
Interesting post, will be fun to follow this.
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I would address all the usual culprits. Make sure barrel is clean, tighten all screws (this one is usually the problem), do try another scope, maybe have someone else shoot the gun, test speeds with a chrony, if not consistent, your internals may need work.
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I shoot pcp only anymore so keep that in kind. If my rifle, with its pellet of choice, doesn't give me one ragged hole at 30 yards no wind and clamped in a gun vise, it's not a keeper. I expect dimes in 177 and 22, nickel groups in 25 at 50 yards.
I want to make sure that any chance of me missing is ME missing, not the gun. I do alot of off hand shooting for squirrel and birds, you have to time the shot just right in between your breaths.
Maybe I'm a accuracy snob, but I won't hunt with a rifle or pellet that won't give me the groups I want, no matter how bad I want them too. That's the main reason I shoot air rifles for small game now, haven't shot my 22lr rifles in years.
I want to make sure that any chance of me missing is ME missing, not the gun. I do alot of off hand shooting for squirrel and birds, you have to time the shot just right in between your breaths.
Maybe I'm a accuracy snob, but I won't hunt with a rifle or pellet that won't give me the groups I want, no matter how bad I want them too. That's the main reason I shoot air rifles for small game now, haven't shot my 22lr rifles in years.
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It very well could be your scope. I had a Hawke Sidewinder 30 on my HW95 and that thing wouldn't hold zero either. Put my Talos back on there and it was back to punching the same hole shot after shot.
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Like others have said, an accurate gun for me is a gun that will do it all the time. Getting small groups but constantly having to mess with the gun or scope is just a good shooting gun that day.
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Depends on the gun really. 1-2 MOA more often than not at a given range usually keeps me happy. If I was shooting a $2,000+ PCPs I'd expect better, but I'm not, so I don't.
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I really like a red dot on my HW30, keeps the gun light weight and I can get on the target quickly.
I know exactly what you mean about the eyes and getting older!
I’d try a red dot with the smallest dot available, not sure but I
I know exactly what you mean about the eyes and iron sights. I’ve mounted a red dot on my HW30 and really like it.
Keeps the rifle slim and lightweight and lets me get on the target quickly.
I like the smallest dot available, I think it’s a 2 moa but I’m not sure.
Best of luck!
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Accuracy (or precision) is usually communicated by describing group size. Group size can be measured in several ways, and some people make up their own ways to measure their groups and communicate (brag about) the greatness of their guns. I don't know how others have done this calculation in the past, but in some cases I think the people are referring to the largest steel target they can clip at a given distance, or shoot 5 shot groups and only measure the tightest 3 of 5. Whatever it is, it makes it confusing when trying to communicate expectations and reality when we are not using the same definition. The way group size should be measured is by measuring the group, outside to outside at the widest dispersion for all shots in the group, then subtract one bullet diameter. This creates a center to center group size, which removes the bullet diameter, so it can be compared with other sized projectile groupings. With a center to center measure, we can later assume an angular dispersion at various distances and reapply the bullet caliber at the appropriate distance of need be.
As a target shooter, my definition of accuracy is what group size can I expect on any day I pickup the gun. It is not the best 3 shot group I ever shot with the gun, it's more like the group size of a 100 shot group. That 100 shot group size needs to be good enough to score the best score possible on the target. So, accuracy is for me is what I can consistently expect from the gun on any given day.
In addition to precision, accuracy can include the ability to retain the point of impact from day to day. Ideally the gun can be pulled off the rack and hit the target on the first shot and not require any sight adjustments. There's probably more to this too, like understanding differences in temperature and such between range sessions. This does not matter in the games I play because there is opportunity to sight in before shooting for score. My guns are able to retain a POI of minute-of-squirrel between uses so it would work for hunting situations, but they tend to not be hitting exactly the center of the target day to day. I usually have to put a few clicks on the scope to get it perfectly centered between sessions.
The one other thing I have seen in air guns vs PBs, every now and again it seems like a pellet chooses its own path to the target and prints way out of the group for an unknown reason. I suspect there is some off center weight distribution in the pellet manufacture. I have come to accept this happens with the pellets I am shooting and consider it part of the game.
As a target shooter, my definition of accuracy is what group size can I expect on any day I pickup the gun. It is not the best 3 shot group I ever shot with the gun, it's more like the group size of a 100 shot group. That 100 shot group size needs to be good enough to score the best score possible on the target. So, accuracy is for me is what I can consistently expect from the gun on any given day.
In addition to precision, accuracy can include the ability to retain the point of impact from day to day. Ideally the gun can be pulled off the rack and hit the target on the first shot and not require any sight adjustments. There's probably more to this too, like understanding differences in temperature and such between range sessions. This does not matter in the games I play because there is opportunity to sight in before shooting for score. My guns are able to retain a POI of minute-of-squirrel between uses so it would work for hunting situations, but they tend to not be hitting exactly the center of the target day to day. I usually have to put a few clicks on the scope to get it perfectly centered between sessions.
The one other thing I have seen in air guns vs PBs, every now and again it seems like a pellet chooses its own path to the target and prints way out of the group for an unknown reason. I suspect there is some off center weight distribution in the pellet manufacture. I have come to accept this happens with the pellets I am shooting and consider it part of the game.
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+10 on every thing you said Dave, old buddy. Accuracy to me is determine the distance to target, aim, fire and hit. If I want to stack em short range I grab the Daystate Gran .177. Out to 100, the rapid mkll 20. 200+ yds the Raw hm1000x. 30 get the call. Very hard to make rabbit stew without the rabbit.
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Accuracy and consistency are not the same thing. For instance I may shoot a really tight group that is not centered on the target "X zone" - that is what many benchrest matches are all about. But if I can shoot pellets exactly in the X of the bull, then it is accurate. An example:
The bottom right target of 5 shots is both accurate and consistent (precise). The other targets are accurate but not as precise or consistent.
The bottom right target of 5 shots is both accurate and consistent (precise). The other targets are accurate but not as precise or consistent.
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There is a theorem in psychometrics. You can't have validity without reliability. You cannot be more valid than reliable. Teaching it is replete with shooting metaphors. The same is true in these discussions. Reliability (repeatability) sets the maximum boundaries for validity (accuracy). Reliability is one of the main sources of error in looking at validity.
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I have "backyard" targets set up at 10, 30 45, 50 and 65 yards behind my workshop so I shoot at a variety of distances. My bench is inside the shop and all of the targets are outside. I print all of my own targets and they all have a 3/4" bullseye. Wind and breezes come from different directions - sometimes all at the same time since I shoot through 2-3 stands of Mountain Juniper trees. I consider it a good day if I'm shooting MOA or sub-MOA. Some days are good days - some days are not good days! 
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the gun is clean its just that if it sits and I pick it up when I see the sparrow teasin me it doesn't stay zeroed in after a period of time. In the past with open sights it was never changing, just feel that with the scope fixed at the end of the gun and with the break barrel being cocked and loaded the movement must be throwing off my sights...
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