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What does “hole in hole” mean to you?
- Thread starter Centercut
- Start date
We’re going to make a distinction between “ hole in hole” and hole ON hole” Really ?
How about we all get calibers and measure center to center and not name them other then groups at stated distances. Other wise it’s going to get difficult.
I think centercuts point was to question the claims made rather then the names used.
How about we all get calibers and measure center to center and not name them other then groups at stated distances. Other wise it’s going to get difficult.
I think centercuts point was to question the claims made rather then the names used.
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I agree.
Its easy to relate to coin sizes. So does a dime cover your group? A quarter? This gives readers a better idea what you’re talking about other than “hole in hole”.
Yes, every now and then you might put two or three in the exact same hole, but that doesn’t make your gun “hole in hole” accurate. To say that your gun is hole in hole at 50 yards, or laughably at 100 yards is just silly. When describing your gun just say what it actually does on average. If you shot ten 5 shot groups at 50 yards, would 9 out of 10 be covered by a dime? They say it’s capable of dime sized groups. If only 3 or 4 would be covered by a dime but they could all be covered by a nickel then there you go... We want to see real groups also, not two or three shots.
IMHO, “hole in hole” is just gibberish...
Its easy to relate to coin sizes. So does a dime cover your group? A quarter? This gives readers a better idea what you’re talking about other than “hole in hole”.
Yes, every now and then you might put two or three in the exact same hole, but that doesn’t make your gun “hole in hole” accurate. To say that your gun is hole in hole at 50 yards, or laughably at 100 yards is just silly. When describing your gun just say what it actually does on average. If you shot ten 5 shot groups at 50 yards, would 9 out of 10 be covered by a dime? They say it’s capable of dime sized groups. If only 3 or 4 would be covered by a dime but they could all be covered by a nickel then there you go... We want to see real groups also, not two or three shots.
IMHO, “hole in hole” is just gibberish...
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Then there is the terminology "precision" vs "accurate". My gun shoots hole in hole all day long but never to the same POA as yesterday. LOL.
Yeah, stick with CTC measurements and we can all agree.
Yeah, stick with CTC measurements and we can all agree.
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Another point is a group is a group 9 shots touching and one two inches out at 100 yards IS NOT a sub MOA group. It wouldn’t be scored as one in competition. A called flier doesn’t count either. It’s what’s on the paper. I’ve never shot competitive bench rest but I’ve watched some fellows practice and I’ve attended a match or two just to watch. I know my guns and my skills. I think I’m an average shot among a bunch of way better then average shooters. On a good day I can pretty consistently hit an apple sized target at 300 yards with my bolt 223. Which means groundhogs are in trouble at distances inside 250 yards. I’ve hit a few out further and with a spotter and a groundhog that gives you a second try or two I’m going to get at least pretty close out to 500. I know guys are claiming to hit most of them at much further distances but I’m skeptical. Twenty years ago I went prairie dog hunting with a guy that I would consider the best shot I’ve been associated with. He was GOOD but he shot nothing but Remington 40 x rifles and bought and traded them keeping only the best. He shot groups in the morning and reloaded in the afternoons. That’s about all he did. He was self taught and he could do three things that I’ve been challenged with . He could work up great loads, he could read conditions and most importantly he could spot his shots thru the scope. He had money and the time and desire to learn to do it. Most of us are short on some of the requirements. His negative was he was a competitive pick and wouldn’t help another person advance. He died about 15 years ago with few if any friends. He shot some great groups though 
point being is we can all improve if we work at it. It’s nice to have a form that shares information
point being is we can all improve if we work at it. It’s nice to have a form that shares information
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This is real world for me, and it is pretty much this way many times at my outdoor range.
12 Five shot groups with some wind, and this was the best I could do for "this day."
No 'hole in hole, not one ragged hole, not even a big hole, no all day long...etc' Some good, some bad and two DQ's (ugly).
But, I have fun, and like all the help from my forum members and always try and apply tips, techniques, etc.
The hole in hole is gibberish! CTC and/or nickel, dime or quarter measurements mean a whole lot more to me!
12 Five shot groups with some wind, and this was the best I could do for "this day."
No 'hole in hole, not one ragged hole, not even a big hole, no all day long...etc' Some good, some bad and two DQ's (ugly).
But, I have fun, and like all the help from my forum members and always try and apply tips, techniques, etc.
The hole in hole is gibberish! CTC and/or nickel, dime or quarter measurements mean a whole lot more to me!
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For me it would mean all rounds into the same diameter hole as the first shot. But what would the shooting world be like without superlatives? No fun. Laser, tack driver, stacking pellets, hole in hole, etc. I’ve always assumed the shooter is waxing eloquent. Unless they provide hard numbers and visuals to back it up. We all have shot awesome groups (another superlative). Doing so consistently, over multiple targets, on the same card?
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Yeah, a coin or measurement is always better than just saying hole in hole. This year the best I’ve come so far to that is at 110 yards with NSA 20.2 slugs from .22 EDGun R3 Long. That last shot broke my heart...
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Yeah, I was so disappointed. 0.6 inch C2C at 110 yards isn't all bad... But I was hoping for 1/4". I know its a "magic group", and not at all the norm, but its still fun...
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110 yards with a .22 caliber and sub MOA is pretty darn nice! That “5th” pellet is like a Mike Tyson left hook. I.e., Comes out of nowhere but you can also count on it!
Nice target Mike!
Nice target Mike!
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For me I love it when you see the paper torn up so bad you could push a quarter through it without touching the sides like the old game Operation, then all the paper pushed back in to make up a little hole.
Centercut, here's your sign, Whoops, thats Bill Engvall's line
Here's your dime ;~Þ lol
Centercut, here's your sign, Whoops, thats Bill Engvall's line
Here's your dime ;~Þ lol
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Good shooting Tommy. I like the upper right target, looks like "hole in hole" to me... j/k.
Below is an example of what I was talking about regarding consistent shooting to determine the accuracy of your gun. This was in preparation for EBR2018 when I was trying to decide which pellet to shoot from the .30 Bobcat, the 50.1 or the 44.75. Five shot groups at 52 yards, shot consecutively. Top row 50.1, bottom row 44.75 gr. I'd say this gun is capable of shooting inside a dime, "all day long"... Its going to be very hard for me to use the Bleu Wolf in Competition this year.
Below is an example of what I was talking about regarding consistent shooting to determine the accuracy of your gun. This was in preparation for EBR2018 when I was trying to decide which pellet to shoot from the .30 Bobcat, the 50.1 or the 44.75. Five shot groups at 52 yards, shot consecutively. Top row 50.1, bottom row 44.75 gr. I'd say this gun is capable of shooting inside a dime, "all day long"... Its going to be very hard for me to use the Bleu Wolf in Competition this year.
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I’ve got a 30 cal RAW it’s my most consistent shooter. I just like the gun. Yes it’s heavy and cracks a little. Easy to load without a mag ( mags drive me nuts). I’d be happy with those shots at 110 for sure.
My gun at 50 is going to hit under a dime . At 75 probably a quarter. 100 it depends. I’ve shot a bunch that touch with one or two out of the group an inch or more. I rarely can tell myself what happened. I’ve not sorted pellets or waited for the perfect day.
I consider myself just damned lucky I have a place to shoot and something to do while holed up at home
maybe that’s what hole in hole means. An “A” hole that can’t leave the house. That’s me. Although I have a real nice gun range 5 miles away which has remained open. Members have card keys and I’ve gone over to shoot my powder burners and there has been either no others there or at most one or two others. I’m really lucky. So even if I blow a sensational group I can’t be pissed. Just so much better off then most.
And I’ve been able to get in a little ground hog hunting. I think I have 5 for the year. No super long shots but that’s so damned much fun. I love just “watchin” for them. I almost hate to shoot them but the farmer needs them gone. I’m also able to do some pest birds and that’s almost as much fun. Can’t shoot like Bob O’Conner but out to about 75 I do OK
My gun at 50 is going to hit under a dime . At 75 probably a quarter. 100 it depends. I’ve shot a bunch that touch with one or two out of the group an inch or more. I rarely can tell myself what happened. I’ve not sorted pellets or waited for the perfect day.
I consider myself just damned lucky I have a place to shoot and something to do while holed up at home
maybe that’s what hole in hole means. An “A” hole that can’t leave the house. That’s me. Although I have a real nice gun range 5 miles away which has remained open. Members have card keys and I’ve gone over to shoot my powder burners and there has been either no others there or at most one or two others. I’m really lucky. So even if I blow a sensational group I can’t be pissed. Just so much better off then most.
And I’ve been able to get in a little ground hog hunting. I think I have 5 for the year. No super long shots but that’s so damned much fun. I love just “watchin” for them. I almost hate to shoot them but the farmer needs them gone. I’m also able to do some pest birds and that’s almost as much fun. Can’t shoot like Bob O’Conner but out to about 75 I do OK
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yes! I like the coin reference,makes cents to me; much easier for me to compare and comprehend,wished it was a standard way of talking accuracy .
I will use in every time from now on....along with the true distance shot....like this ain't fishing....
I will use in every time from now on....along with the true distance shot....like this ain't fishing....
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I know I've shown this pic numerous times on the forum but this is my closest definition of 5 shots in one hole at 50yds. As reference the orange dot is 3/4".
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To me, it means one hole not much, if at all, bigger than the projectile. I've heard people say "one hole group", and it's one big shaggy hole two or three times larger than the projectile, which is stretching the saying.
Three shots from my .25 Marauder@25 yards in one hole. This was the Benji dome setting, but I was switching to Kings. Adjusted the crosshairs and put one right through the bull. A lot of potential in that gun.
Three shots from my .25 Marauder@25 yards in one hole. This was the Benji dome setting, but I was switching to Kings. Adjusted the crosshairs and put one right through the bull. A lot of potential in that gun.
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Amen Kdog!
That is also my definition of one pellet hole or as close as possible! Fan .......friggin.....tastic!! Never did this and I am in awe!
If you or anyone else on this thread come to NC, call me and we’ll shoot together at my local range. We can have a great time and make up stories about “hole in hole” groups.
Seriously, nice shooting!
That is also my definition of one pellet hole or as close as possible! Fan .......friggin.....tastic!! Never did this and I am in awe!
If you or anyone else on this thread come to NC, call me and we’ll shoot together at my local range. We can have a great time and make up stories about “hole in hole” groups.
Seriously, nice shooting!
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