What features do you want to see in your ideal PCP gun?

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Here's another....

I would like to see the top airgun companies collaborate to come up with a proprietary barrel thread for shrouds and LDC's. By proprietary, I don't mean one company owns it and everyone else has to pay to use it. I mean a thread that is unique to airguns so no firearm use the same threads. 

This would provide a much needed and clear distinction between a firearms "Silencer" and a device for reducing the noise on air guns. This way, you would not be able to attach your air gun shroud to a firearm without modifying the firearm or making a custom adapter (which would be proof of intent). If you didn't modify a powder burner or buy an adapter, you have solid proof of a lack of illegal intent. 

When people in the various law enforcement organizations talk about this issue, the distinction they always seem to make is "if that device could be screwed onto a firearm and blah blah blah". 

Currently, if your LDC is not attached to an air gun, there is no way for a police officer to tell the difference between an air gun device and an unlicensed "Silencer". Perhaps this might be something they could actually get the Alphabet org to officially sign off on as it takes away what they probably see as a potential loophole in the law (someone claiming a real Silencer is for their airgun when it was really for a murder, or something). 

An added side benefit is that we would finally get a common standard for airgun barrel threads so we wouldn't need to buy a new LDC for every airgun we buy. I like convenience! It's so much better than inconvenience!
 
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I would like to see more companies make the barrels easier to have cleaning access without taking the barrel out of the rifle like my Thomas FT.
The Bench Rest rifles are the easiest to clean.



I have the Field Target stock and all I have to do is turn the swing port out of the way and loosen two hex screws of my cheek riser and take it out of the way. Then I can use my 40 inch 5-40 thread .177 cal Tipton Max Force 1- piece carbon fiber cleaning rod to really get in there and do a thorough barrel cleaning from the breech end.

This Thomas set up with no breech orings or obstruction to get to the breech makes barrel cleaning a breeze! It has completely ruined me. I'm a total airgun snob now ;-) LOL
I love the way the swing port or jet port as some call it just swings right out of the way. The oring is in the swing port and it seals against the breech end of the barrel as it's swung back into shooting position.

Here's the Tipton inserted into my rifle



My bubble level is sitting atop the block of the lever action with magnets so I just remove it and take the black cheek riser out and the rod fits right in there!



Peace and swing port grease
Fuss


 
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What is different about the Thomas rifle that makes it easier to clean? I'm not sure I understand which bit makes the difference. Is it the lack of breach O ring so no worries about damaging it or something else?

I clean mine with a cleaning rod and cleaning pellets. It is harder to get to the breach end but I can't see how the Thomas is different in that respect.

I would love to try one of those Thomas rifles. I keep hearing that they are the best of the best. 
 
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"zebra"
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You just triggered a memory. Did you post about that gun when you first bought it on another forum? The thread I read described the buying experience and I remember thinking "I wish we could buy guns like that here". 





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Yes, posted it originally on the YF back around 2008 when I was working in the Philippines. Unfortunately I sold them in 2010 while already back in the US without understanding their uniqueness and value . At that time I was new on the forum and new to PCPs. Also, I walked in the middle of a huge controversy that happened a couple of years prior with FILARMS company and some members on the YF. It wasn't directed at me, but It's still a sore subject for many so I rather stay away from it.

 
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I figured the picture would be self explanatory, but yes the lack of an oring which could be damaged inside the breech is a big help and the easy access to the Breech is the other. Also the orings in the swing port are a breeze to change if ever needed.

I hear RAW has a batch of barrels like the Thomas uses but I don't think you can clean the barrel on the Raw with the ease that the Thomas has? These standard twist polygon LW barrels will foul and need some extensive cleaning if you don't clean them regularly.

Most serious BR shooters clean between each 25 shot card.

 
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"zebra"I would like to see the top airgun companies collaborate to come up with a proprietary barrel thread for shrouds and LDC's... This would provide a much needed and clear distinction between a firearms "Silencer" and a device for reducing the noise on air guns.
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It would be nice to make them standardized and interchangeable. But an appeals court already set a precedent by throwing out the charges in a landmark case over airgun silencers. The judge sarcastically mocked the prosecutors for their broad interpretation of the law, which he said would make potatoes illegal.

And whatever you think of Trump and the new Republican Congress, at least one good thing is likely to come of it: HR 3799 would effectively remove silencers from NFA regulation. It's expected to pass early next year.
 
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"CampFussell"I figured the picture would be self explanatory, but yes the lack of an oring which could be damaged inside the breech is a big help and the easy access to the Breech is the other. Also the orings in the swing port are a breeze to change if ever needed.

I hear RAW has a batch of barrels like the Thomas uses but I don't think you can clean the barrel on the Raw with the ease that the Thomas has? These standard twist polygon LW barrels will foul and need some extensive cleaning if you don't clean them regularly.

Most serious BR shooters clean between each 25 shot card.

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Thanks for the info.

Interesting on the LW polygon barrels too. I'm sure I remember reading something about them needing less cleaning than the regular barrels. I guess it was wrong. 

I'm not sure I understand the point of the LW Polygon barrels. No manufacturers (or very few) seem to use them and I haven't read anywhere (yet) that they were more accurate in a meaningful test. Have you found them to be superior? Would they be on you wish list for your ideal air rifle?
 
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"hasenpfeffer"
"zebra"I would like to see the top airgun companies collaborate to come up with a proprietary barrel thread for shrouds and LDC's... This would provide a much needed and clear distinction between a firearms "Silencer" and a device for reducing the noise on air guns.
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It would be nice to make them standardized and interchangeable. But an appeals court already set a precedent by throwing out the charges in a landmark case over airgun silencers. The judge sarcastically mocked the prosecutors for their broad interpretation of the law, which he said would make potatoes illegal.

And whatever you think of Trump and the new Republican Congress, at least one good thing is likely to come of it: HR 3799 would effectively remove silencers from NFA regulation. It's expected to pass early next year.
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A lawyer I spoke to about it said that the precedent only helps if the facts of the new case are the same. 

If you read the judges summary of why the conviction was overturned, it relied (at least in part) on the fact that the expert witness for the prosecution had to use an adapter to test the air gun LDC on a firearm to show that it met their definition of a "Silencer" and no such adapter was found in the defendant's possession. 

In that particular case, it was fairly easy to claim it was an airgun silencer because it was shipped with an air rifle he was selling (they found it while looking for illegal chemicals they believed he was selling on the Internet). 

Picture a different scenario where you order an LDC online and it ships in a box on it's own. If it was discovered (e.g. FedEx may remove it from the box to repackage as they do if you declare a value when shipping) and reported, you may have no way of proving it is for an air rifle. 

A number of airguns currently use threads that are commonly used on certain firearms. Most foreign manufacturers of airgun moderators sell them as dual purpose (I.e. For air guns and rim fire etc). 

A lot of people in America own both powder burners and air guns. Does anyone really want to rely on some police officer believing them? 

Personally, I don't like gray areas. They make you vulnerable. Even if a lawyer got you out of trouble, those things are never cheap. 

Creating a custom thread seems like an inexpensive way of providing an easy distinction as well as solving the problem of needing to buy a new LDC for every gun.

obviously it would be better if firearm silencer were just removed from the list and became unregulated. Nobody likes laws that make no sense or are counterproductive. 
 
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This thread is very interesting.

In my opinion the Priest from RTI Arms is momentary the best on PCP market.
I want to add just next features:
  1. Additional new CZ barrel whit caliber 3,5mm and faster twist rate for reach ideal speead 290 m/s at 16Joule and accuracy for new .133 beast shape pellets . Smaller caliber wil be also quieter.
  2. Hamerless system simillar to Huben K1 to reach higher accuracy and power also.
  3. Spare paintball butle remote air line whit degassing screw
    [/LIST=1]
 
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"skorec"This thread is very interesting.

In my opinion the Priest from RTI Arms is momentary the best on PCP market.
I want to add just next features:
  1. Additional new CZ barrel whit caliber 3,5mm and faster twist rate for reach ideal speead 290 m/s at 16Joule and accuracy for new .133 beast shape pellets . Smaller caliber wil be also quieter.
  2. Hamerless system simillar to Huben K1 to reach higher accuracy and power also.
  3. Spare paintball butle remote air line whit degassing screw
    [/LIST=1]
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  1. Usually when one person wants something there will be others who want the same thing, but I think you might be on you own in wanting a new caliber that is even smaller than .177. I already feel like I need tweezers to load 177 pellets. I can't imagine what smaller pellets could be used for. Hunting bacteria maybe?
 
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As long as tthe sky's the limit, why not ask for hopper fed instead of a magazine. Many industrial riveters use loose, un-orgaised stock and use properties of the stock to introduce order. Apparently one attempt used by the US military for a hopper fed machine gun was based on triangular sectioned projectiles instead of rounds. So of course, the bores of the barrels were triangular. Trounds is what the proejectiles were called.
 
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I would like to see a gas ignition airgun......like the same gas cartridges they use for the portable nail guns. Not sure of the gas used here......but if it could be done......it possibly could offer many advantages. First.....there would be no hammer system to recoil....it would be completely recoiless. Electronic trigger too. However.....these would be considered firearms for sure and is probably the reason why nobody has attempted to make one.
 
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"Marksman3006"I would like to see a gas ignition airgun......like the same gas cartridges they use for the portable nail guns. Not sure of the gas used here......but if it could be done......it possibly could offer many advantages. First.....there would be no hammer system to recoil....it would be completely recoiless. Electronic trigger too. However.....these would be considered firearms for sure and is probably the reason why nobody has attempted to make one.
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I thought that nail gun cartridges contained gunpowder. The pneumatic one my friend has runs off a compressor, not cartridges. 

I did see a design for a big bore air rifle that used co2 cartridges to create single use bullets with disposable casings like on a regular powder burner. The bullets looked like 50cal casings in size. I don't think it ever went into production though. 

There are also the designs that use air cartridges with dump valves but they still require hammers to function. The Huben is hammerless but it ain't all that. 

To be considered a firearm it would have to expel the projectile by means of explosion. Anything that uses gas instead of an explosion could not be a firearm unless it was an explosive gas like hydrogen (and it was exploded to fire the pellet).

I don't think anything could be 100% recoil free because you'll still get some from the air leaving the barrel. 

I alway thought the most obvious disposable cartridge design would be helium bullets. IMO, current air cartridge designs don't work because they try and make them for big bores (which requires too much air for a small cartridge) and the cartridges are too expensive to be worth it. If they were disposable and didn't require a valve, they could be cheap. You would only need to puncture them like you do with co2 cartridges.

25 caliber 50fpe disposable helium bullets could be small, 100% consistent in power output and allow people to use repeating high quality PCP rifles without investing in tanks, fill adapters etc. There would be no limited shots per fill either. You could carry hundreds of rounds if you wanted. Every shots would have identical except energy and speed.

There would obviously be some trade-offs too. Lower upfront costs for higher overall running costs but that never stopped rimfire and center fire bullets becoming more popular than black powder guns. The high upfront cost of current PCP guns puts a lot of people off the hobby.
 
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