What is the Purpose of Knurling on Slugs?

@sb327 Thank you. It’s easier to see with the driving bands. It’s the waffle type patterns that were throwing me off because there are so many different divots. And I get that lead is malleable all though projectiles May be created at various levels of hardness, but so with many impressions seemed like it would create a higher probability for some air to find an alternate path around the projectile. I guess it was a hiccup in my thinking. Thanks again.
 
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Fwiw, sealing the bore completely does not always produce the best performance. Depending on the design of the projectile, fully sealing the bore/grooves increases friction to the extent performance is less. A leaky bore rider may very well produce more velocity (all things being equal). It’s a balancing act sometimes.

Dave
 
"

What is the Purpose of Knurling on Slugs?"​

seems we got off the topic worrying about air leakage, or sealing, when I see the main reason is to improve accuracy,
to expand the slug to fit
how or why is does is another rabbit hole, the fact that it does ,,, is the purpose and ole 'knifemaker' was vocal about proper size to about .0003" to .0005" over bore
 
"

What is the Purpose of Knurling on Slugs?"​

seems we got off the topic worrying about air leakage, or sealing, when I see the main reason is to improve accuracy,
to expand the slug to fit

how or why is does is another rabbit hole, the fact that it does ,,, is the purpose and ole 'knifemaker' was vocal about proper size to about .0003" to .0005" over bore
@jarmstrong It may seem that way if you only read the title, but if you review my initial post you'll see there were several questions posed. I asked the original questions and questioned a response or two. And I've read parts of threads on the GTA including posts by Knifemaker. My goal was to gain a better understanding. Thanks to all who responded.
 
@Vetmx. Those points are not lost on me. A couple of members explained that pretty thoroughly. The illustrations are helpful.

The above assumption is what I have been unable to make sense of. The expanded areas are parts of an uneven surface. I’m trying to understand how air won’t escape around the projectile.

It’s good that others seem to understand this. I’m just asking for them to help me understand this man’s assumption because I do not get it.
It's not my assumption it's just the way it works. I learned this by paying attention to what other people were telling me. For some reason it doesn't seem hard to understand to me so perhaps my explanation was vague? Here is a diagram with an exaggeration of the effect that might help you visualize it more clearly.


IMG_7894.jpeg



Is it a stretch to say that it is having a purpose kind of like patches in muzzleloaders? Yes it's somewhat porous on a certain level but it helps to snug the projectile against the barrel which makes up for the porosity. So instead of surrounding the bullet with a patch, you rough up the surface which adds approximately the same thickness and creates a soft spongy layer that seals well against the engraving of the rifling
 
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If you have a cylinder of lead and make divots in the surface, the lead that has been displaced has to go somewhere. I tried to make an exaggerated illustration:

View attachment 475912

I assume that given proper knurling you get a better seal because you've slightly expanded the diameter of the slug and should get a slightly more snug fit.
@MrP Maybe it wasn't your assumption, but I was simply using your words to try to better understand a concept. Nothing wrong with admitting that you're assuming when you don't understand. At least you made that clear so you were not misleading anyone. My goal was to gain a better understanding. Several of you were helpful there so thank you for that. The above illustration is really helpful.
 
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Nice - good news if the effort resulted in some clarity. I definitely learned from the other people's posts and I love those drive band knurls. I didn't realize I had to use the word assumption but that does make it sound like I'm just guessing.
@MrP I didn't take it that way. I read it as if you were explaining the concept the way that it made sense to you, but you didn't feel like you could explain the process precisely in detail. Consequently, you provided illustrations that supported your idea. It was honest and helpful to me. I think the one thing that kind of ties it all together is the quote below. I was thinking that the uneven surface produced by knurling, more specifically the waffle type of pattern, would create a higher probability for air escaping around the projectile resulting in a loss of velocity. How much velocity? I have no idea, so I thought I'd ask. Personally I don't understand everything that occurs in the barrel before the projectile exits the muzzle after pressing the trigger. I only know what I can see and I try to make improvements based upon my understand of that. I'm still learning so I ask questions.
Fwiw, sealing the bore completely does not always produce the best performance. Depending on the design of the projectile, fully sealing the bore/grooves increases friction to the extent performance is less. A leaky bore rider may very well produce more velocity (all things being equal). It’s a balancing act sometimes.

Dave
 
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@MrP What I haven't stated is that my questions came about after I tried new ammo. It looks promising within the range that I've been shooting. It's knurled and came with some sort of lubrication already applied. I saw another type of ammo that I may try in another rifle that also has a similar type of knurling. I'm simply trying to better understand what's going on with my guns as I shoot different ammo.
 
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That Corbin knurling device is very tempting. I have sizing bushings for decreasing the size of slugs but nothing for getting a better fit the other way.

Shooting the GK one, one issue is undersize slugs slightly loose in the cylinder chambers hang up sometimes. I wonder if that knurling device would result in a wide range of products seating well in the magazine.
 
That Corbin knurling device is very tempting. I have sizing bushings for decreasing the size of slugs but nothing for getting a better fit the other way.

Shooting the GK one, one issue is undersize slugs slightly loose in the cylinder chambers hang up sometimes. I wonder if that knurling device would result in a wide range of products seating well in the magazine.
@MrP It looks like something that may be interesting to play with. I prefer to spend more time shooting and hunting than making projectiles. That thing looks slow, but it's probably faster than some of the DIY methods I've seen. If the slugs produce the result(s) one seeks, then I guess that's where the true value lies. Now your idea about the Huben platform is one of the first things I thought of when I saw that device. The transition from the mag to the barrel had me wondering about the effect(s) of that transition. Mainly because I recall reading some things that suggest that the chambers of the mag are larger than that of the barrel (I was reading about the K1 and I'm not sure if this is the case in all K1s). I was thinking if the knurling was damaged some sort of way that air may escape around the slug throwing off its stability in flight. But I don't know enough to make good sense out of the thought.
 
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I mentioned in post #3 of this thread why I knurl for my huben.

The thread leaned a bit towards the sealing aspect but I don’t feel that’s the most significant benefit.

Consider that reloaders take tremendous care in how the bullet is seated and set within the chamber. If you have a loose chamber in a pcp, there is no guarantee the projectile will start straight. If you knurl close to chamber size, the projectile will set centered and still be easy to load without causing unnecessary friction in the bore.

Dave
 
I mentioned in post #3 of this thread why I knurl for my huben.

The thread leaned a bit towards the sealing aspect but I don’t feel that’s the most significant benefit.

Consider that reloaders take tremendous care in how the bullet is seated and set within the chamber. If you have a loose chamber in a pcp, there is no guarantee the projectile will start straight. If you knurl close to chamber size, the projectile will set centered and still be easy to load without causing unnecessary friction in the bore.

Dave
@sb327 The sealing aspect was the last part the I was able to understand and the focus in the later posts in this thread because the earlier answers were not addressing that question.

The last two sentences of the above quote makes good sense concerning seating the projectile. Thanks for fleshing that out.
 
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It shot ok...better that without the Knurling by about 500%.

This is 25 shots at 50y. The accuracy isn't bad but these blow a lot more than I would like. I think they were 34g. I use mostly Rimfire barrels and this was a way to evaluate slug shapes that would not have fit well in the .223 barrels.

Mike
IMG_2577.jpeg
 
@sb327 Thank you. It’s easier to see with the driving bands. It’s the waffle type patterns that were throwing me off because there are so many different divots. And I get that lead is malleable all though projectiles May be created at various levels of hardness, but so with many impressions seemed like it would create a higher probability for some air to find an alternate path around the projectile. I guess it was a hiccup in my thinking. Thanks again.
Same here I always thought knurling made a series of staggered diamond impressions and so knurling grooves wasn’t obvious. But of course it makes perfect sense when you think about it.
 
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I cut into the slug positioned between two stacks of utility knife blades. The blades stacks are set parallel on a couple blocks of aluminum with a set spacing between.

The slug is set on one and the blocks pushed together. Then slide the blocks to roll the slug between the blades until the two blocks touch.

I added a picture of two slugs pushed through a barrel, one with and one without the cuts. This was my first experimental setup. I don’t use as many blades now and I have the stacks spaced up some.

DaveView attachment 476059View attachment 476058
Holy smokes I can actually see the size increase! That's gnarly!
 
It shot ok...better that without the Knurling by about 500%.

This is 25 shots at 50y. The accuracy isn't bad but these blow a lot more than I would like. I think they were 34g. I use mostly Rimfire barrels and this was a way to evaluate slug shapes that would not have fit well in the .223 barrels.

Mike View attachment 476596
VK now has .223 slugs he offers in both 28.5gr, and 32.8gr. I'll be testing the 32.8gr out of the Huben GK1 and K1 this week since these are brand new

20241011_133107.jpg
 
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