N/A What Makes a PCP Airgun Easy to Work On?

[Ezana4CE]

I agree, but not needing a schematic - once you know what's in there - is no excuse for a gun not to have a schematic available. I think having it available is a great thing and something I do look for in any airgun I plan to purchase . . .

@AlanMcD Yes, a schematic and a corresponding parts list are necessary if they are not one and the same. Also the use of quality, yet easily obtained parts is a big plus in making an airgun easy to work on. I think one thing that is a pain is when the o-ring sizes are labeled strangely and don’t jibe with the sizes on an o-ring supplier’s website leaving the user to figure out what is what or
to ask others.

 

[Florida_Man]

@AlanMcD Yes, a schematic and a corresponding parts list are necessary if they are not one and the same. Also the use of quality, yet easily obtained parts is a big plus in making an airgun easy to work on. I think one thing that is a pain is when the o-ring sizes are labeled strangely and don’t jibe with the sizes on an o-ring supplier’s website leaving the user to figure out what is what or
to ask others.

For sure. I am a novice when it comes to o ring sizes. All my Snowpeak stuff has been easy to order. I like replacing the factory ones after I polish and debur. I had a flashpup and that was an easy rifle, straightforward o rings and screws.

My original Royale 400 a great rifle. All I ever had to do was breech o rings. Once I mastered getting them in it was a breeze.

 

[SteveV]

More years in the hobby than I care to divulge. I prefer simple but quality construction, readily available parts for mods and repairs that are reasonably priced, and good customer service from the manufacturer and or dealer.

 

[Vana2]

As a teenager I was the local gunsmith that took care of the maintenance, tuning and modifications of my friends airguns and stocks. I'm a compulsive tinkerer, I had access to my dad's well equipped workshop and have always been mechanically inclined. It was a learn/innovate as you go environment.

Retired now, I still do my own maintenance/tuning, mods and make (amongst other things) custom fitted gun stocks.

Something is "difficult" if you don't have the right tools/parts, the information on what to do or the experience to figure it out on your own.

With access to information on the web and experience like available here on AGN, anyone coordinated enough to hit their mouth with a fork (most of the time ) should be able to do most routine maintenance and basic mods without problem.

Some operations and calibrations may require special tools or care but doing some research BEFORE starting should help in avoiding projects beyond your comfort/skill level.

Proper preparation makes things easier...

Before you start
- Research the project thoroughly
- Have a clean, comfortable well lit workspace available.
- Have all the tools, parts, cleaners and (appropriate) lubricants ready.
- Have labeled bins (muffin tins or plastic egg cartons) to keep track of small parts.
- Have a pen and paper for notes, sketches and comments.
- Have a camera to record location and orientation of parts and springs.
- Record settings (e.g. regulators, hammer spring) for reassembly reference.

Doing the project
- Don't rush, schedule enough time (twice the estimated time?) needed.
- Avoid phone calls and distractions (like other "helpers") if possible.
- Think twice before you do, confirm your actions before committing.
- Presume that a part is spring loaded until proven otherwise.
- Make notes and sketches as required and reference them to the labels on the parts bins
- Take lots of pictures and reference the picture in your notes to keep yourself in sync.
- Scrutinize every spring to determine its orientation, how it moves, its pivot point and how/where the ends are anchored (you will thank me later).
- Note that rotating parts/knobs may have springs and (tiny) ball bearings as detents.
- Inspect for wear, damaged (deformed or cracked) parts and burrs while working.
- Be gentle with O-rings, inspect each one closely and lubricate lightly before installing.
- Don't over tighten fasteners.
- Use the appropriate amount and type of lubricant (too much is not good).

You should plan to reassemble the project as soon as possible while the process is still fresh in your mind.

The above list looks long but it's really just common sense and a couple of suggestions/cautions.

It's satisfying to do your own maintenance and modding can be fun if you're into that kinda thing but I always think about the sign posted in the local repair shop...

$50/hour - standard rate
$100/hour - if you fixed it and it doesn't work
$200/hour - if you tried to fix it and all the parts are in a box

So in reply to the OPs thread...
All airguns are easy to work on - if you know what you are doing

Cheers!

 

[Ezana4CE]

@Vana2 Loved your post until I got to the “all airguns are easy to work on” part because of the ”if.”

Great lists of recommendations!!!

 

[Scotty1]

@Vana2 Loved your post until I got to the “all airguns are easy to work on” part because of the ”if.”

Great lists of recommendations!!!

I often don’t know what I’m doing, until I’m done doing it.

 

[elh0102]

I currently own air rifles from 4 makers. I don't shoot in high volume, so the frequency of repairs or resealing is not often. As I have done various tasks over the years, I have observed that these things are not terribly complicated, but like anything mechanical, practice is required to become proficient. In answer to the titular question, I will say, a small number of big parts is perfection when it comes to ease of maintenance and repair. Of the rifles I own, the RAW is the poster child for that formula.

 

[Vana2]

@Vana2 Loved your post until I got to the “all airguns are easy to work on” part because of the ”if.”

Great lists of recommendations!!!

The "if" part is covered by research, lots of information (of varying quality) on the web.

A search for "airgun repair" on a particular airgun should find videos showing the insides. If you can't find the specific airgun there's probably similar models or even generic information on that type of airgun will get you some familiarity with the parts and what to expect.

Airgun manufacturers, vendors and 3rd party parts and accessory suppliers are a good source of information for videos, drawings and parts lists.

All that and you can post a question here for help.

Best is to learn by doing, get an old airgun and take it apart to see what makes it work.

Cheers!

 

[PumaCarl]

With a PCP: no stressed parts, no cylinder hones, no medieval spring compressors, no messy springs; air it down, take apart, fix/replace, reassemble, air up. Done. If you are just asking what makes one pcp more easy to work on then another, then the answer is quality. The better they're made the easier they are to work on and harder to screw up.

 

[L.Leon]

Not to be silly, but I purchase mine to shoot, not “work on”. So for me the main criteria would be long term reliability with a good warranty. Easy to work on would be relative to ones‘ skills in the endeavor.

 

[corny]

I’d say easy to work on is subjective.
Most guns are easy enough to work on. However, tear them down once or twice and u can see the telltale sign of it. Just not built well enough.

Other guns u can tear down endless times and they still look and feel brand new. Even decades later.

 

[Feinwerk]

@Ezana4CE good question. I think @Emu 's list is a very good starting point. What you're asking about is something that any good designer or engineer should have firmly worked out in a bullet list whenever designing a good product. Many of these things require evolution to achieve because it's rare for someone to think of everything at first.

I would say simplicity in design should probably be at the top. A general concept that generally leads to all things being easy and reliability being highest. Ease of maintenance typically follows simplicity of design and form.

There's always a compromise, and no one choice is perfect. In my career, when I designed tools and fixtures, my philosophy was that 'the design is not finished until there's nothing left to take away'. In order to get there, you rarely think of the simplest thing first. We usually start with something more complicated, and then figure out how to whittle down the design to combine multiple parts into one, eliminate things that aren't necessary, or make something that is easier to manufacture. This frequently requires an evolution in design.

I remember how frustrated I was as a youth when one of my toys broke and I wanted to fix it and then I realized it that it was not designed to be taken apart and fixed! It was designed to go together one time and when it broke you threw it away. That's a good starting point for being the opposite of the actual goal here.

Some thought bullets...
• Ease of disassembly without specialty parts, jigs, or fixtures.
• Use of standard size replaceable parts, such as o-rings and seals that are readily available.
• Sub assemblies that separate easily and provide access for cleaning and part replacement.
• Appropriate choice of robust fasteners and materials in the original design that hold parts together securely and survive multiple disassembly/reassembly cycles without fatigue or failure.
• Availability of a clear schematic and parts list with replacement part numbers and sizes listed.

As an aside, I used to design parts that required o-rings and in my drawings I always specified etching or steel stamping of the parts to identify the drawing number somewhere on the part, and also Id the o-ring size next to its gland (groove) required for maintenance, so the guys in the shop/field doing repairs didn't even have to search documentation to know what size o-ring was required. This isn't necessarily practical on small airgun parts.

• Easy access to the entire barrel/bore for cleaning, inspection, pushing projectiles through with a rod, dislodging stuck projectiles.
• minimizing burrs and shark edges/corners, use of fillets and radii and chamfers, especially on outside corners, that make parts slide together easily and ease removal and reinstallation of o-rings without damage.
• appropriate choice of clearances between mating parts that strike the best balance between alignment and ease of disassembly. No one wants to have to beat or force something apart or back together again where surfaces are binding. Also aftermarket or field adjustment of any such binding surfaces that makes disassembly difficult. This happened to me on my Edgun R5M. A brass bushing between the bolt block and the receiver was buggered and I had to do a lot of careful work with needle files to relieve the mechanical interference before the bolt block would pop off and on easily with and pressure only.
• Designing in features that make parts easy to grab or manipulate during assembly and disassembly, such as cross holes for grabbing/holding with a hook or punch/pin, or notches for grabbing or prying with the edge of a screwdriver blade, or alignment marks for indexing and aligning locations of parts.

I'm sure I could come up with a few more given time.

I'm sure lots of you are thinking of things you could add to this list, many of which are discovered while working on your own stuff and you think to yourself - if only they did this or that, this would be so much easier .

We ought to combine all these goodies into a guideline to be used to help manufacturers maybe.

Regards,
Feinwerk

 

[Firewalker]

First blush:

NOTHING!!

Airsmithing is much harder than gunsmithing. To keep my reply to a minimum, it comes down to complicated engineering. FX is complicated, I do not like to work on them but they are a delight compared to the Avenger which is junk as far as I am concerned. The Notos is popular simply due to its simplistic design, ease at which it can be disassembled and modified.

 

[JimD]

I would add to the other comments, which I generally agree with, proper use of materials. It's part of the design. But I think it's a key area I fault in the original Avenger. Plastic is not the way a shroud should be supported in my view. Plastic is not appropriate to cover the action. A three piece plastic stock with a plastic picatinny is not a good idea.

Another no-no in my book is slotted screws. My guns do not have many and for something like holding the Prod's grip on they are OK. But the air bleed screw on my older P35 is slotted. The newer ones are allen headed which I think is more appropriate. Slotted are generally bad, phillips are a little better but still not good. Allen head or torx are much preferred.

I've only been shooting PCPs since 2020. But I've disassembled the trigger mechanism of two of my five (and got it back together although with some difficulty in one case). All my guns have had the trigger at least adjusted and most have new screws for more sear adjustment. I am a retired mechanical engineer. I sent my Avenger back due to an initial leak but I don't know if I will send any more back for warranty work. Shipping was not cheap and the work took 5 weeks. I'll probably just fix them myself from now on (I also change my own oil in my two vehicles and boat - takes too long to take it some where. I can change the oil in less time than the drive to the service place and back).

I saw a youtube on the sub 12 channel where he was taking a british made gun apart that had "tamper seals" over the fasteners. I won't buy one like that. Bad attitude on the part of the manufacturer in my opinion.

 

[Genob]

First blush:

NOTHING!!

Airsmithing is much harder than gunsmithing. To keep my reply to a minimum, it comes down to complicated engineering. FX is complicated, I do not like to work on them but they are a delight compared to the Avenger which is junk as far as I am concerned. The Notos is popular simply due to its simplistic design, ease at which it can be disassembled and modified.

This I have to respectfully disagree. I completed gunsmithing course, but did not do the 2 year apprenticeship. So out of respect to the guild I will not call myself as one. I do work on both powder burners and airguns. Big big difference in operating pressure, 350 bar to 70K+CUP and the tolerances required in chambering, head spacing and trigger mechanism.

 

[JimD]

I also think it is harder to do things on my powder burners than my PCPs. I have no idea how to get my double barrel 20 apart so when a firing pin broke I had to have the work done. I don't think I've disassembled the bolt on my centerfire deer rifle either. On one hand I haven't needed to but on the other I'm not sure it can be done without special tools. Barrel removal definitely takes a tool I do not have which is much harder than loosening a set screw on my PCPs. Even my 22lr rifles are more challenging for me to take apart than my PCPs. But I haven't really needed to take them completely apart either.

 

[Genob]

I also think it is harder to do things on my powder burners than my PCPs. I have no idea how to get my double barrel 20 apart so when a firing pin broke I had to have the work done. I don't think I've disassembled the bolt on my centerfire deer rifle either. On one hand I haven't needed to but on the other I'm not sure it can be done without special tools. Barrel removal definitely takes a tool I do not have which is much harder than loosening a set screw on my PCPs. Even my 22lr rifles are more challenging for me to take apart than my PCPs. But I haven't really needed to take them completely apart either.

Ah, but plenty of youTube graduates becomes experts, LOL.

 

[Healthservices]

Having a airgun that you can repair with common tools that can be purchased at a local store.

But as a user, I think having patience is required. The right tools. Being able to find repair articles. Good lighting. Clean clear work space. That way if that spring or set screw drops there is a better chance of you finding it. Having good eyes or glasses so you can see everything. Being mechanicaly inclined helps. Also being dexterous is very important as you must mess with a lot of small parts. I've work with cars since the 70s and have been a tech with auto dealer since 89. However my dexterity is starting to go because of Arthritis and loss of nerves in my hands. I am starting to have a hard time holding and starting small screws. Getting old sucks you finally start using some of your money for toys but can't work on them like you were able in the past.


Allen

 

[Davewayne75]

Step by step:

- Easy to take all air out.

- Easy to disassemble Just giving turns.

- Easy to find the o'ring that seal.

-Easy to adjust the trigger.

-Easy to increase and decrease hammer tension.

- Easy to get spare parts.

- Not need of special tools.

- Easy to identify and replace the damaged o'ring.

- Change of o'rings not affecting the tunning.

The very best example of a EASY to maintenance rifle is the Vulcan 3 = SUPER EASY !!!!

I feel like a fool even posting this...
I was decocking my Vulcan 3 .30 and I didn't have the charging handle in the right position. The rifle fired thru the breach and blew out the o'ring.
Any tips on reinstalling the o'ring for the barrel?

 

[Emu]

It is always difficult on ANY rifle.

First of all confirm that you have the new o'ring exactly of the correct size.

I unfold a clip and then make a 90 degrees fold in the tip. It should be smaller than the internal diameter of the barrel.

Once the new o'ring is dully lubricated I insert it to the middle of the o'ring into the barrel by the sidemof the barrel you load the pellet.

Then I insert the folded tip through the o'ring and then with an Allen wrench I push the the rest of the o'ring inside the barrel and then pull the o'ring with the folded tip of the clip in order t make it seat in the chanel it should seat.

If anyone has a better way to solve this frequent problem, PLEASE SHARE !!