I just got a 177 R8 and I'm trying to find out what the normal (actual) velocity people get from them.
Thanks
Ron
Thanks
Ron
Beeman what velocities from your R8?
- Thread starter Mycapt65
- Start date
Thank you gentlemen. No wonder people rave about their Hw50/55s. Power to weight they're probably close to a 77/97 platform.
I didn't realize the R8 would be that close to the R7. I know they're both 25mm but i hoped the longer stroke was worth more. Oh well
Thanks for the info
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The R8 I had years ago (yes, I was an idiot for selling it) was tuned by Russ Best and shot 815 using H&N Match 7.9gr pellets.
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That's almost 11.65 fpe. That's way more than anyone else is listing. I was initially expecting 9.5 -10 which is still substantially more than the others listed here.
That's what scares me.
I do regularly get 700 out of an R7 with JSB 7.33s. Even then 720 out of an R8 isn't enough of a difference for me to make up for the extra weight. Honestly 20fps in 177 is inperceptable
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Wow, 815 fps is incredible for this gun.
But for the person with average tuning skills, 700 - 720 is probably all you’re going to get.
I dont have a chronograph, but to put into perspective. My P1 will just barely burry a CP Hollow Point in a (edit) 1/2” pine board. My R8 will usually go right through. I did up the power for a short while since I have an additional .500” of spacing available. But it was noticeably harder to cock, and since I wasn’t really interested in more power, I took the spacers out.
But for me, these guns are about balance. Could they be made more powerful? Yes but they would be harder to cock. Could they be made lighter? Yes, but they wouldn’t be as easy to shoot accurately (in my opinion). I believe they hit the sweet spot in power/weight/cocking effort (and looks) for a mid powered pellet gun.
If more power is required, I just use my R10.
But for the person with average tuning skills, 700 - 720 is probably all you’re going to get.
I dont have a chronograph, but to put into perspective. My P1 will just barely burry a CP Hollow Point in a (edit) 1/2” pine board. My R8 will usually go right through. I did up the power for a short while since I have an additional .500” of spacing available. But it was noticeably harder to cock, and since I wasn’t really interested in more power, I took the spacers out.
But for me, these guns are about balance. Could they be made more powerful? Yes but they would be harder to cock. Could they be made lighter? Yes, but they wouldn’t be as easy to shoot accurately (in my opinion). I believe they hit the sweet spot in power/weight/cocking effort (and looks) for a mid powered pellet gun.
If more power is required, I just use my R10.
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I bought my R8 in 1989 with the Beeman Blue Ribbon 4x scope. The gun shop that sold it to me stated that it shoots at 720 FPS and is considered a dual purpose Field and Target model. The accuracy with Beeman Silver Jets was incredible and I killed more than my share of animals at distance up to 50yds. Silver jets are long gone now and the closest I can find is H&N Silver Point 11.57gr. When I bought it, Beeman offered a Lifetime warranty if you mailed in the registration card and $1. They also offered what they called their "Laserization" process which was supposed to increase power greatly. I never sent it in for anything and only performed occasional barrel cleaning and regular lubrication of moving parts. I still have it and it is still very accurate, but speed has dropped to @450 FPS. Beeman has advised me to never sell this R8 because of the quality back then. I am now severely addicted to PCP guns, so should I let this sit, sell, or send it in for repair?
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"That's what scares me.
I do regularly get 700 out of an R7 with JSB 7.33s. Even then 720 out of an R8 isn't enough of a difference for me to make up for the extra weight. Honestly 20fps in 177 is inperceptable"
I succumbed to the Beeman marketing many times in the early 80s... never had a single one that met his specs and I kept trying. The sad part is how good they were without worrying about the power but I didn't know... I had a number of RWS rifles and pistols that met the specs on every one and were for the most part just as accurate, just maybe not as pleasant to shoot.
For these reasons, I always wanted an R8 but never bought one... a huge mistake. I believe they hit the sweet spot for springers for general enjoyment, with construction quality, beauty, and pleasantness to shoot.. even over the R7.
Wouldn't mind having an R8 still, but I have too many to shoot already, so probably not gonna happen...
Bob
I do regularly get 700 out of an R7 with JSB 7.33s. Even then 720 out of an R8 isn't enough of a difference for me to make up for the extra weight. Honestly 20fps in 177 is inperceptable"
I succumbed to the Beeman marketing many times in the early 80s... never had a single one that met his specs and I kept trying. The sad part is how good they were without worrying about the power but I didn't know... I had a number of RWS rifles and pistols that met the specs on every one and were for the most part just as accurate, just maybe not as pleasant to shoot.
For these reasons, I always wanted an R8 but never bought one... a huge mistake. I believe they hit the sweet spot for springers for general enjoyment, with construction quality, beauty, and pleasantness to shoot.. even over the R7.
Wouldn't mind having an R8 still, but I have too many to shoot already, so probably not gonna happen...
Bob
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I keep hoping to run into a nice R8 at a reasonable price, don't think it's going to happen though.
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the way I look at it, you could sell it and get maybe $400 or $500 on a good day. Plus whatever the beeman scopes are going for these days. But what are you going to do with the money? Buy some groceries and fill your gas tank a few times? That doesn’t sound like much fun. I would hang on to it and if you were so inclined research on how to build a spring compressor / rebuild a HW spring gun with the threaded end cap. Then put in a new spring and piston seal and breech seal. And you’re good for a long while….
Plus Beeman advised you not to sell it…do you really want to anger the ghost of Doc B?
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A few interesting anecdotes-
In the last half-century I've owned over a dozen HW spring rifles (maybe two dozen), and still own a .22 Beeman R-9 and an HW-77. Every HW spring rifle I purchased in the 1980s and 90s suffered mainspring fatigue or breakage within the first 500 to 2000 rounds; so I got in the habit of selling them or installing aftermarket springs. Even today, I consider HW spring rifles among the best only when fitted with aftermarket springs.
Most of the best spring-piston shooters on Earth use HW springers in Field Target. How do they do it? Always with the heaviest models fitted with aftermarket springs to reduce power, so as to tame the firing behavior enough to more closely extract the guns' accuracy potentials. Think R-1 fitted with a soft spring = R-8.
I would go so far as to say the best of the best spring-piston shooters on Earth are not only also some of the best spring-gun tuners on Earth, but put more time and efforts into maintaining their rifles than anyone else(s) on Earth devote to one gun.
They also probably shoot more rounds through one rifle than anyone else(s), because winning isn't always a matter of who uses superior equipment. So although I've done well in airgun Silhouette and Field Target competitions, I consider Spring Piston division champions to occupy a whole 'nother level of dedication.
Despite criticisms, sometimes not misplaced, Dr. Beeman exposed Americans to, as he so accurately described them, 'adult' airguns over a half-century ago. We shouldn't overlook where we might be now without his pioneering/marketeering efforts. He built his impressive legacy on spring-piston rifles, mostly HWs; albeit sometimes with varying levels of 'enlivenment'.
Although I am quick to defend his legacy, given my multiple experiences with mainspring failures on what I consider(d) EXPENSIVE pellet guns, I was also quick as anyone else to criticize Beeman back then; in fact doing so in my first airgun book (The Manic Compressive, copyright 1998). A regular contributor to airgun magazines of the time, I also ran ads in them hawking my book while simultaneously wondering if Dr. Beeman would catch wind of said criticisms. When an order arrived in my mailbox from Dr. Robert Beeman, I thought, "UH-OH... BUSTED!"
Was I ever relieved to read his reaction in a blog post, as close to verbatim as I can recall it- "I am often criticized for my outspokenness, but Ron makes me look like a shrinking violet!" Not only hugely relieved
, I gained a whole 'nother level of respect for the man's sense of humor and grace under fire.
Rest in peace, Dr. Beeman.
.
In the last half-century I've owned over a dozen HW spring rifles (maybe two dozen), and still own a .22 Beeman R-9 and an HW-77. Every HW spring rifle I purchased in the 1980s and 90s suffered mainspring fatigue or breakage within the first 500 to 2000 rounds; so I got in the habit of selling them or installing aftermarket springs. Even today, I consider HW spring rifles among the best only when fitted with aftermarket springs.
Most of the best spring-piston shooters on Earth use HW springers in Field Target. How do they do it? Always with the heaviest models fitted with aftermarket springs to reduce power, so as to tame the firing behavior enough to more closely extract the guns' accuracy potentials. Think R-1 fitted with a soft spring = R-8.
I would go so far as to say the best of the best spring-piston shooters on Earth are not only also some of the best spring-gun tuners on Earth, but put more time and efforts into maintaining their rifles than anyone else(s) on Earth devote to one gun.
They also probably shoot more rounds through one rifle than anyone else(s), because winning isn't always a matter of who uses superior equipment. So although I've done well in airgun Silhouette and Field Target competitions, I consider Spring Piston division champions to occupy a whole 'nother level of dedication.Despite criticisms, sometimes not misplaced, Dr. Beeman exposed Americans to, as he so accurately described them, 'adult' airguns over a half-century ago. We shouldn't overlook where we might be now without his pioneering/marketeering efforts. He built his impressive legacy on spring-piston rifles, mostly HWs; albeit sometimes with varying levels of 'enlivenment'.
Although I am quick to defend his legacy, given my multiple experiences with mainspring failures on what I consider(d) EXPENSIVE pellet guns, I was also quick as anyone else to criticize Beeman back then; in fact doing so in my first airgun book (The Manic Compressive, copyright 1998). A regular contributor to airgun magazines of the time, I also ran ads in them hawking my book while simultaneously wondering if Dr. Beeman would catch wind of said criticisms. When an order arrived in my mailbox from Dr. Robert Beeman, I thought, "UH-OH... BUSTED!"
Was I ever relieved to read his reaction in a blog post, as close to verbatim as I can recall it- "I am often criticized for my outspokenness, but Ron makes me look like a shrinking violet!" Not only hugely relieved
, I gained a whole 'nother level of respect for the man's sense of humor and grace under fire.Rest in peace, Dr. Beeman.
.
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I would install an aftermarket spring kit such as Vortek or ARH and keep the gun. I got into PCPs big time, but during the winter months, I drag out my springers for some casual shooters. You always need one or more of these.
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Before Beeman there was Robert Law. I got my first adult air rifle from him in 1978, a Feinwerkbau 124. He was already offering tunes.
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I've kept it this long through all the bad and very broke times and it is one of those that I never let go. I am extremely mechanically competent and have done a bunch of gunsmithing work over the years, so I may get around to it . I have all sorts of pullers, compressors, etc., but I don't know if any will work for this. Pyramid has a nice 5 part blog on the R8 that will be helpful, but I have read that putting it all back together may be a pain in the area of hooking up the break barrel part.the way I look at it, you could sell it and get maybe $400 or $500 on a good day. Plus whatever the beeman scopes are going for these days. But what are you going to do with the money? Buy some groceries and fill your gas tank a few times? That doesn’t sound like much fun. I would hang on to it and if you were so inclined research on how to build a spring compressor / rebuild a HW spring gun with the threaded end cap. Then put in a new spring and piston seal and breech seal. And you’re good for a long while….
Plus Beeman advised you not to sell it…do you really want to anger the ghost of Doc B?
Beeman R8: Part 5 | Blog | Pyramyd AIR
by Tom Gaylord Writing as B.B. Pelletier Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 A history of airguns This report covers: Clean and inspect Little wear Install the Rail Lock mainspring compressor Now what? Tip When to take off the compressor Finish threading the end cap The trigger It’s been modified! Installing...
www.pyramydair.com
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Getting it back together isn't a problem if you build the gun in the correct order. You put the barrel on after installing the piston and BEFORE you reassemble the rest of the gun. Installing the barrel last is extremely difficult after the mainspring is installed. That's a good way to cross thread the barrel pivot bolt in the receiver. You shouldn't need a spring compressor if you're reasonably healthy.I've kept it this long through all the bad and very broke times and it is one of those that I never let go. I am extremely mechanically competent and have done a bunch of gunsmithing work over the years, so I may get around to it . I have all sorts of pullers, compressors, etc., but I don't know if any will work for this. Pyramid has a nice 5 part blog on the R8 that will be helpful, but I have read that putting it all back together may be a pain in the area of hooking up the break barrel part.
Beeman R8: Part 5 | Blog | Pyramyd AIR
by Tom Gaylord Writing as B.B. Pelletier Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 A history of airguns This report covers: Clean and inspect Little wear Install the Rail Lock mainspring compressor Now what? Tip When to take off the compressor Finish threading the end cap The trigger It’s been modified! Installing...www.pyramydair.com
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I need to look you up if I decide to tackle it. Look at the R8 rebuild article from Pyramid that I posted. The author states that they only produced in the 400 FPS range back then. Doubtful as I would never had bought it or taken so many rabbits, squirrels, and airborne creatures.
Here is mine. In 1989, I paid $295 for everything and scope mounted. The gun box and manual are in the attic.
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Wow that's a very nice time capsule. Maybe 400fps in 22?
Incidentally I was high end dealer mechanic for twenty years. Eleven of them a BMW Master Mechanic. In that time I've learned that each manufacturers has their own build philosophy that permeates most everything they make. I haven't taken apart my R8 yet, but I've taken apart dozens of other Weihrauchs. I'm sure the R8 is assembled in the same order as their others. I don't doubt you read what you read but I'll be ok without it. Any R8 won't be tough to work on when done in the right order.
Low power is low spring pressure. That means you probably don't need a spring compressor if you're healthy and careful. Heck, I've assembled several stout R1s without a compressor because I've developed a simple technique that works for me. Well that and I'm a healthy 6'3" 205lbs
I know I probably sound like a pompous jerk citing my experience and contidicting a reputed information source but there's no way to fill you in on my experience without coming across that way. There are several people here that I have helped over the phone for free and done work for that would vouch for my legitimacy. When you're ready to address that rifle I will do the same for you. I will say that you will need a good set of hands and quality hollow ground screwdrivers.
Be well and keep that rifle. It's quite a package. You even got the Beeman trigger shoe.
Ron
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