What’s up with the very thin airgun barrels.

[qball]

I think enough is when you dont have to worry so much about poi shifting after spending a couple two or three grand. I like FX's swappable design, but can achieve the same thing in my AEA Challengers with a threaded barrel and barrel nut. Imagine FX quality but a thicker threaded barrel that would be pretty rad.

I see what you are trying to say but I personally don’t know of this POI shift you speak of from owning 6 of FX guns, granted I baby my guns regardless. My crosman guns have pencil sized barrels and I have no issues either. Crown superlite barrels are about as light as it gets and it’s dead on every time.

I have also had a solid TJ barrel on my impact and it’s just way too heavy with no noticeable improvement of any kind except for being more pellet fussy and can’t really shoot slugs all that well.

 

[airgunmike56]

On my veteran, RTI, Mutant, and Cricket You can pull the barrel out use it as a weapon knock someone on the head, Put it back in the gun and no POI shift,, I do not understand why someone would put a thin barrel in a gun,
Mike

 

[drpietrzak]

Great points but the question really boils down to what’s enough? Just like PB world we can go heavy metal barrel or lighten the weight of the barrel to reduce the flop/flip. In PB world carbon barrels are really good, we need less than 1/10 of the strength as long as the barrel system is light enough. FX’s superlite barrel is nothing but a metal straw with a shroud and that thing is free floating and shoots lights out.

What I’m trying to say is size isn’t everything, how it is used is just as important!

I agree with some of that but few precision benchrest rifles use carbon fiber. Heavy steel for them.

 

[qball]

I agree with some of that but few precision benchrest rifles use carbon fiber. Heavy steel for them.

Precision bench rest rifles are looking to add weight anyway possible. Plus a custom carbon barrel will be prohibitively expensive, it’s not something your local gun smith can make.

 

[drpietrzak]

Precision bench rest rifles are looking to add weight anyway possible. Plus a custom carbon barrel will be prohibitively expensive, it’s not something your local gun smith can make.

Well, the weight is not the core thing really, it is stiffness. The heavy have less barrel whip and are easier to tune. The weight is secondary as they can get that in any other part of the rig

 

[qball]

Well, the weight is not the core thing really, it is stiffness. The heavy have less barrel whip and are easier to tune. The weight is secondary as they can get that in any other part of the rig

Guess we can agree to disagree, there is only so much you need to reduce the whip and I don’t see no one carry a 50lb bench rest rig, they are very extreme niche guns anyways. If I can shoot sub MOA at 100 yards then what difference does it make how heavy the barrel or even how much it whips? I certainly like my gun to be as accurate as possible but also as light as possible, I don’t value weight for sake of weight nor do I care for built like a tank because I don’t care to carry a tank around.

 

[drpietrzak]

Guess we can agree to disagree, there is only so much you need to reduce the whip and I don’t see no one carry a 50lb bench rest rig, they are very extreme niche guns anyways. If I can shoot sub MOA at 100 yards then what difference does it make how heavy the barrel or even how much it whips? I certainly like my gun to be as accurate as possible but also as light as possible, I don’t value weight for sake of weight nor do I care for built like a tank because I don’t care to carry a tank around.

I agree. A balance of stiff yet functional is the key. My coming from the pb world just sees the increased attention to barrels in this way as a positive.

 

[qball]

I agree. A balance of stiff yet functional is the key. My coming from the pb world just sees the increased attention to barrels in this way as a positive.

Yup, most of us shot PB well before we knew about airguns(old BB guns don't count). Last 5 years the carbon barrels have really taken off and came down in price and availability. Carbon barrels are just as stiff as a bull target barrels while being lighter than even a fluted hunting barrels, technology has progressed immensely! A Christiansen Arm's MPR weight in at 6.9lbs with sub MOA guarantee and in the right hands easily 1/2-3/4 MOA gun, so easy to carry even with nice/heavy glass on it and yet I can add some weights to the rails and just a beast off the bench. All this at a price that's basically the same as other super heavy precision target guns, isn't technology grand? You can always add weight to light guns but never take off weight from a heavy gun.

Back to airguns, a soda straw with carbon reinforcement(no different than PB carbon barrel) is more than plenty to contain our lowly little 80 FPE!

 

[steve123]

I had a Shenlin (SP?) .22 barrel from a pb i was thinking of putting on a daystate , but a friend offered more than i paid for it and shoots ELR .22 so it left my possession . Still, i do think about it .

wonder what the actual bore size is in a .17 PB barrel ?

The 17 cal PB bores are .172.
A friend and I had a .172 match PB barrel machined to fit my USFT, bought a Corbin press and custom swaging dies, etc, and we gave up getting slugs to shoot well. I think the twist rate was too fast because it was a 9 twist, and the shape of the slugs were wrong, as well as the lengths we tried.
We abandoned the project because of the expense. Also we got a bit extreme trying a HPBT slug. Thinking back we should have tried to shoot it backwards. Hehe
Not saying it can't be done but it takes a lot of trial and error as well as expense to figure this all out.

Later on I had that same barrel chambered for my CZ527 in 17 Remington and it shot fantastic with 30gr Kindler Gold's.


I think that most airgun designers could improve their barrels and attachment systems in spite of the success some have had. One screw holding a barrel at the breach certainly doesn't inspire confidence in my mind.

 

[beerthief]

so .172 to too small for pellets unless custom made , ok thanks , sorry all your work didn't pay off .

P.S. my USFT does not have anything holding the barrel in place , just snug fit .

 

[steve123]

so .172 to too small for pellets unless custom made , ok thanks , sorry all your work didn't pay off .

P.S. my USFT does not have anything holding the barrel in place , just snug fit .

I know what you mean but the barrel block is so massive and the tension holding the barrel is as solid as can be without the need to clamp the screws down hard because of the length of barrel and surface area contact inside the barrel block. Those barrels aren't moving unless the tension is not adequate to hold it which is not the fault of the system.

The two USFT's in my family held zero nearly perfectly for years and years. In my case over two decades and 15 years for my wife's USFT.

And Thomas airguns utilize a similar barrel fixture system and also hold zero super well.

Pretty much every other airgun I've owned hasn't held zero like these did/do.

 

[Dairyboy]

I prefer airguns with barrels threaded into the receiver for peace of mind. Evol, Taipan Vet and Edgun R5M/Lelya 2.0. 2 of them are tensioned and the other clamped down. Actually my Airacuda has a threaded reciever also and those are cheap guns. So it can be done. As a pester/hunter my guns get used in conditions I'm sure others would freak out about. Bouncing around in my front seat or back seat with other things by them they get banged and scratched and full of dust. I pick them up by the barrels regularly as well out of the safe and truck. Having the confidence that I can do basically anything that won't actually damage the gun and not have to worry about a poi change is huge to me. It's my first criteria in a gun. If I'm interested in a gun and I see anything at all in my research about someone having a poi shift I wont consider that gun again. That's my opinion and while it can be on the extreme side it's simply what I need and expect out of my guns. Others might not mind but I do.

 

[beerthief]

I know what you mean but the barrel block is so massive and the tension holding the barrel is as solid as can be without the need to clamp the screws down hard because of the length of barrel and surface area contact inside the barrel block. Those barrels aren't moving unless the tension is not adequate to hold it which is not the fault of the system.

The two USFT's in my family held zero nearly perfectly for years and years. In my case over two decades and 15 years for my wife's USFT.

And Thomas airguns utilize a similar barrel fixture system and also hold zero super well.

Pretty much every other airgun I've owned hasn't held zero like these did/do.

Thanks , i just changed my USFT to a lefty with cant (very comfortable) and although it did cross my mind i saw no way i missed anything when remounting everything lefty . One happy camper here .

 

[HogKiller]

Of all the budget brands I've dealt with, Snowpeak's barrel workmanship is the worst I've encountered. Crowns that look like they were done with a dull drill bit running backwards. One of mine as delivered:
View attachment 353206

On long barrels they like to shove a dirty piloted crowning bit down into the muzzle and mangle the rifling. Ran into it twice on guns purchased years apart.

SPA still doesn't get it - Diana Chaser rifling damage - Airguns & Guns Forum

SPA still doesn't get it - Diana Chaser rifling damage, Air guns, Airgun Forum

www.gatewaytoairguns.org

Neither of my short-barreled guns had the rifling damage (one of them a PP700S-A) so a crown job took care of that end of the barrel.

It's great you can clean up yours because they usually improve substantially with a little effort.

Well it's obvious that the crown is the wrong angle, it's even the wrong angle for a drill bit which is 118º included, that's closer to 90º, like a counter sink, only not as good.

"The crown is simply the raised area on the barrel's muzzle that allows a slight recess at the bore. Crowning is done to protect the bore edge from dents and burrs should the muzzle strike against or be struck by a hard object. Rifling must be absolutely true at the end of the barrel for maximum accuracy and must be protected." I'd say where I got this from but I'd get dinged for mentioning their name.

 

[qball]

I prefer airguns with barrels threaded into the receiver for peace of mind. Evol, Taipan Vet and Edgun R5M/Lelya 2.0. 2 of them are tensioned and the other clamped down. Actually my Airacuda has a threaded reciever also and those are cheap guns. So it can be done. As a pester/hunter my guns get used in conditions I'm sure others would freak out about. Bouncing around in my front seat or back seat with other things by them they get banged and scratched and full of dust. I pick them up by the barrels regularly as well out of the safe and truck. Having the confidence that I can do basically anything that won't actually damage the gun and not have to worry about a poi change is huge to me. It's my first criteria in a gun. If I'm interested in a gun and I see anything at all in my research about someone having a poi shift I wont consider that gun again. That's my opinion and while it can be on the extreme side it's simply what I need and expect out of my guns. Others might not mind but I do.

The Panthera have clamp with 2 screws to secure the barrel so it’s is no long secured by a single grub screw. That should address the durability concerns you have.

EDIT: impact does not come with the clamp mechanism, it's part of the tensioned barrel kit!!!

 

[Dairyboy]

Both newer impact and Panthera have clamp with 2 screws to secure the barrel so it’s is no long secured by a single grub screw. That should address the durability concerns you have.

That's good to know! The Panthera does interest me and knowing the barrel is supported in the plenum is big also. I don't think I'd ever get one as I'm satisfied with what I have. But a big move on the right direction for the secured barrel. Plus what I would want is a compact version. The 380mm preferably. I believe you said that's in the pipeline.

 

[qball]

That's good to know! The Panthera does interest me and knowing the barrel is supported in the plenum is big also. I don't think I'd ever get one as I'm satisfied with what I have. But a big move on the right direction for the secured barrel. Plus what I would want is a compact version. The 380mm preferably. I believe you said that's in the pipeline.

Sorry, the Impact does NOT come with the clamp. It is part of the barrel tension kit, I have it on my Impact from the kit and totally slipped my mine on that. I ended up taking off the carbon tube and use factory shroud so that ended up to be one expensive little camp, I'll have to call FX to find the part number because I can't find it on their site.

Pathera does have that same clamp at the end of the plenum! So the "floppy" bit on a panthera is REALLY short!!!

EDIT: FX part number for that clamp is 20545

 

[MongooseV8]

Sorry, the Impact does NOT come with the clamp. It is part of the barrel tension kit, I have it on my Impact from the kit and totally slipped my mine on that. I ended up taking off the carbon tube and use factory shroud so that ended up to be one expensive little camp, I'll have to call FX to find the part number because I can't find it on their site.
View attachment 354776

Pathera does have that same clamp at the end of the plenum! So the "floppy" bit on a panthera is REALLY short!!!
View attachment 354778


EDIT: FX part number for that clamp is 20545

I thought the newer M3's come with the clamp. I have seen some out of the box with the clamp online, and my Huma tensioner kit states it might not work with the newest version of the M3. Good upgrade for sure.

 

[qball]

I thought the newer M3's come with the clamp. I have seen some out of the box with the clamp online, and my Huma tensioner kit states it might not work with the newest version of the M3. Good upgrade for sure.

Maybe they do now, maybe some new M3 owner can chime in.

 

[DBlue]

Maybe they do now, maybe some new M3 owner can chime in.

Yes, my new MK3 came with the clamp installed....there's a note in the manual saying to not tighten the screws on the clamp unless you are installing the tensioner kit...it comes with an o-ring installed in the clamp, if you install the barrel tensioner kit you remove the o-ring and tighten the clamp screws.