I am waiting for the 100 shot Magazines with "scope sight hole" in the middle so you can see your scope .
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What's with the Slug Speed fetish lately?
- Thread starter Centercut
- Start date
hmmm ....... 40 grain slug traveling @ 1070 FPS
where have i seen that before ???
OH yes .22 standard velocity LR .
where have i seen that before ???
OH yes .22 standard velocity LR .
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Old wives' tale... Some do, but those are borderline slugs unstable to start with. A STABLE slug should easily fly at 850 to 1050 fps without any change in accuracy.
Exactly... If it makes you feel better, the sky's the limit. But there are MANY more reasons to shoot them slow than fast. And if I hear "flat" one more time I think I'll puke... NO SLUGS TRAJECTORIES ARE FLAT!!!
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I respect everyone's opinion, but clearly my statement was misinterpreted. maybe fad was the wrong word. let me just say that if you believe wind drift comes from BC then you may not have a true understanding of what it is. the coefficient of friction on a forward moving object does not determine the horizontal force applied to said object. what BC does do is alter the TOF thereby changing how long the horizontal force is applied. drift still remains the same as it is x force over x time. now, as it applies to the original question, by increasing speed of the slug you can and will achieve the same outcome to a point. basically, one can make up for the other in certain circumstances. for guys who have been shooting long enough we do not look at BC or speed or any one thing. we look at all variables and use what is most accurate at the needed distance. again, my term may have been wrong. it was meant to be the same as the original question since the 2 are directly related, so maybe I should have said fetish.
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I'm still not sure what you are trying to say... It seems you're saying BC has little to do with wind drift? TOF is a factor, so slower has more drift than faster? I'm not sure I understand what you are saying?
I do know that a slug with a high BC will drift less in the wind than one with a lower BC, even if the lower BC slug is traveling significantly faster than the high BC slug... It seems you are disagreeing with this, or maybe I'm reading your post incorrectly...?
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It doesn't sound like you want an answer, sounds like you got an ax to sharpen.
Also, wind drift is better due to less time the slug has in the wind before impact so actual drift is less. Enough to matter? Probably not physics says you cant have both "flatter" and "Wind drift isn't better" at the same time, it just doesn't work that way.
As far as the "why" goes, I have slugs that hydraulically open at 1000fps but hardly move at 900fps. I choose 1050-1100fps to dump all the energy in critters but like 900fps for the rest of my shooting as long as as accuracy is good.
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My understanding is that bc is applied at a ridiculously higher rate of speed than wind is actually moving. (I'd hope, anyhow). Less air resistance simply equals less affect by said air on the projectile as it cuts thru it.
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Nope, no axe. Let me link this article so you can educate yourself on wind drift, BC and why they are related. It’s a common misconception that faster equals less wind drift. That’s a fallacy for subsonic projectiles.
https://hardairmagazine.com/ham-columns/drag-coefficient-and-ballistics-coefficient-explained/
https://hardairmagazine.com/ham-columns/whats-the-best-velocity-for-slugs-to-minimize-wind-drift/
I do think the speed to open your hollow points better is a good reason for higher speed.
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Get to much higher 1050 fps going to get louder as well I'd just look for where ever you get the best accuracy and so it's not maxed out
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centercut, there's a lot to it and I, as you may know am horrible at explaining things lol. The simplest thing that dictates all is TIME. so, BC is a measure of friction as it relates to air, or another way is every action has an equal and opposite reaction so the force we see moving forward (energy) is also the same force the slug or pellet has to overcome to keep moving. A high BC slug reduces those forces in a sense allowing it to maintain is speed which in turn reduces its time to target. that is the only thing BC does. we cannot argue speed vs BC because they are together. BC changes with speed and speed changes with BC but it happens at specific points in time. or as we tend to look at it, distance.
As far as drift, we need to look at side profile and weight. the catch is that everything is related, so we can't have one without the other. that's where people get confused. a heavy slug resist wind better because it takes more force to move it, coincidently, a heavy for caliber slug usually has a higher BC so many people credit BC more than they should. all things are related, and all things can be swapped to achieve a goal but the thing to remember is at a specific point in time. Speed will match or beat high BC but it may only happen for .3 of a sec. then better BC comes in and carries the rest of the way. if your target is inside that .3 of a sec. BC will offer nothing over speed as it hasn't had enough time to matter. so the difference you see in drift is a combination of time and weight not exactly BC although all are related.
I don't know if I explained that correctly or helped in any way lol, but what's in my head never seems to come out right. there's more involved but I don't have the ability to put it into words. I certainly don't want to get into the science of wind and high/low press. over a surface.
As far as drift, we need to look at side profile and weight. the catch is that everything is related, so we can't have one without the other. that's where people get confused. a heavy slug resist wind better because it takes more force to move it, coincidently, a heavy for caliber slug usually has a higher BC so many people credit BC more than they should. all things are related, and all things can be swapped to achieve a goal but the thing to remember is at a specific point in time. Speed will match or beat high BC but it may only happen for .3 of a sec. then better BC comes in and carries the rest of the way. if your target is inside that .3 of a sec. BC will offer nothing over speed as it hasn't had enough time to matter. so the difference you see in drift is a combination of time and weight not exactly BC although all are related.
I don't know if I explained that correctly or helped in any way lol, but what's in my head never seems to come out right. there's more involved but I don't have the ability to put it into words. I certainly don't want to get into the science of wind and high/low press. over a surface.
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just saw the links so let me give you this to think on. faster absolutely = less drift because if it didn't then BC would not exist.
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I’m thinking we’ll have agree to disagree. But at least read the science. Let me know if you think they are wrong also?
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Bigger, faster, more powerful than a locomotive. It's the American way. Many European countries limit power significantly so that we won't shoot our eye out. If we keep this ridiculous power thing going, some event will happen, then some pinhead politician will argue that we should do the same. Most of our guns were designed to shoot in the 850-950 range and do it well. We can't substitute power for marksmanship. And that argument for hunting? BS. Many Eskimos hunt with 22 LRs and quite effectively.
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ok, lets try this another way. lets take what we know to be true.
1) speed is a measure of time over distance
2) high BC maintains speed better over distance
when you take those 2 facts you clearly see that time is the deciding factor. so if time is the deciding factor and speed is the measure of distance and time then "faster" = less drift/drop for a given distance. again, its all relative to a specific point in time. we tend to look at muzzle velocity only as speed but you have to realize that "faster" can happen anywhere. for high BC faster happens later as at some point the faster muzzle velocity will slow down, at that point the high BC will become faster. the reality is that although we all argue it, its all valid and related so we are just arguing from different points.
so for the why some people choose speed, well, it may be what is needed or what is achievable for a given scenario. some guns just cant shoot high BC slugs at any speed, but they may find a low BC slug that shoots great at high speed. that is something I cannot answer, I only gave my reasons for speed.
1) speed is a measure of time over distance
2) high BC maintains speed better over distance
when you take those 2 facts you clearly see that time is the deciding factor. so if time is the deciding factor and speed is the measure of distance and time then "faster" = less drift/drop for a given distance. again, its all relative to a specific point in time. we tend to look at muzzle velocity only as speed but you have to realize that "faster" can happen anywhere. for high BC faster happens later as at some point the faster muzzle velocity will slow down, at that point the high BC will become faster. the reality is that although we all argue it, its all valid and related so we are just arguing from different points.
so for the why some people choose speed, well, it may be what is needed or what is achievable for a given scenario. some guns just cant shoot high BC slugs at any speed, but they may find a low BC slug that shoots great at high speed. that is something I cannot answer, I only gave my reasons for speed.
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"With distances known". That's the key for me. I put a lot of priority on "flatness" of trajectory. Because I am 90% hunter and 10% target shooter. So 90% of the time my targets are moving around, and if that causes me to be just 5-10yrds off in my range estimation, an extra 100-200fps can mean the difference between a clean kill, a clean miss, or the worst case: a wounded animal. The increased flatness also means, in general, less clicking of turrets or changing of holdover points since the target is dynamic, and this can be critical when I may only have a few seconds to decide to squeeze the trigger or not.
Really just a different problem set compared to shooting at a bench with a range finder and stationary targets. Which I also enjoy doing. About 10% of the time...
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Just setup my ruger with some see through mounts."With distances known". That's the key for me. I put a lot of priority on "flatness" of trajectory. Because I am 90% hunter and 10% target shooter. So 90% of the time my targets are moving around, and if that causes me to be just 5-10yrds off in my range estimation, an extra 100-200fps can mean the difference between a clean kill, a clean miss, or the worst case: a wounded animal. The increased flatness also means, in general, less clicking of turrets or changing of holdover points since the target is dynamic, and this can be critical when I may only have a few seconds to decide to squeeze the trigger or not.
Really just a different problem set compared to shooting at a bench with a range finder and stationary targets. Which I also enjoy doing. About 10% of the time...
Can't decide whether to sight the scope for distance or the irons.
*I'm thinking irons for close and scope for far....but isnt that what most setups like this are done like?...
prolly try both ways....irons for far and scope for close
Guess I just gotta see which way I feel more comfortable utilizing them
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I used those on my 50 cal muzzle loader. I often had a lot of close shots on deer.Just setup my ruger with some see through mounts.
Can't decide whether to sight the scope for distance or the irons.
*I'm thinking irons for close and scope for far....but isnt that what most setups like this are done like?...
Guess I just gotta see which way I feel more comfortable utilizing them
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