When Airing Out Grievances Concerning a Vendor or Aftermarket Shop, Why Refrain from Naming the Offender?

[Ezana4CE]

I've read several threads on various forums about member complaints concerning mishaps, miscommunications, poor communication, switcheroos, poorly packaged items/damaged-in-transit items, lost items, guns held longer than anticipated (held hostage), unscrupulous practices, etc. After reading several posts and threads, I'm sometimes left scratching my head as to why the offenders' identities are not revealed. I've read some answer this question by stating that they want their guns and gear back as they hold on to hope that an unscrupulous entity or one with poor communication skills may come around and do right by them. That's their right to say or not say, but it is puzzling to me. Why even go public with no intentions on sharing the entire story including the resolution with the AGN community that you vented to?

I've had issues with vendors and shops to where I either filed grievances or declined to do business with them altogether. For those that I filed grievances with or against, I have been pretty diligent about communicating these things to this community. For entities that I declined to do business with, there's really been no need to say much. I avoided issues by declining to do business with some of those types. I've watched others have issues with some that I opted to avoid. Had I had issues with them, you'd better believe that the AGN community would hear about it. My issue with Optics Planet that spanned a couple of years has been pretty well documented on AGN and I was happy when it was finally rectified. I revisited a post that was a year or two old and updated it with the resolution. I also like to share my experiences when I receive outstanding service. At times I may communicate directly with an entity that I believe in, in order to help them improve their business. There is one that I have been thoroughly impressed with all the way around ever since they came on the AGN scene and that is Northeast Airguns. So I have shared two examples - one good, one bad - that you all can look up to verify (and there are more). With that said, is it asking too much of others to do a similar thing when they encounter outstanding or atrocious service or business practices when it comes to airgun related products and services?

 

[TYLERHASKINS2]

I really think sometimes we just need to vent about stuff like that to people who either can relate, or people who care about each other and understand the pain and frustration. I can understand not listing names UNTIL the items get returned, but I would most definitely want names of these people or shops as soon as the conflict is solved.

 

[Ezana4CE]

I really think sometimes we just need to vent about stuff like that to people who either can relate, or people who care about each other and understand the pain and frustration. I can understand not listing names UNTIL the items get returned, but I would most definitely want names of these people or shops as soon as the conflict is solved.

@TYLERHASKINS2 If the items are not returned then not saying anything makes sense? Once items are returned or a resolution is reached, not saying something to me says "I got my stuff. Good luck to the rest of you."

 

[woogie_man]

Depends on the details really. And honestly many people don't want to put that much of their laundry on a public forum. And many don't want to say dealer XXXXXX was horrible they did this and did that. Then you typically will find people coming in and arguing that it didn't happen and what not. People typically take a side quickly and things tend to devolve quickly.

Personally I think things should be told so others can see what is going on. Typically there isn't just one person feels that way. Most are taught to not say something bad about someone else..... if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all. We all grew up with that saying.

 

[Ezana4CE]

Depends on the details really. And honestly many people don't want to put that much of their laundry on a public forum. And many don't want to say dealer XXXXXX was horrible they did this and did that...

And here's a large part of the problem. Had someone warned you (as the victim), do you think that you would be in this sort of predicament (if you were a member complaining of getting screwed over)? Why not say that "xxxx runs a shop that is an absolute show?" If I read that, I would avoid that shop all together. In fact, similar things have been said about vendors with mixed reviews and I've paid attention. What I found later on were more people with similar complaints who didn't take heed and erred in taking a chance on the positive reviews that they'd read and had some of the same issues. I've had a transaction and communication or two with a shop and found that what many others said were true. Considering that I have little faith and trust in said shop, I avoid them unless I have few other options. If I do need to purchase something again, I have a good idea what to expect and that is a calculated risk that I'd take.

 

[woogie_man]

Agreed.......BUT..... to play devils advocate...... there are always bad reviews on everything. Typically in business all you will see are the bad reviews, I think it is something like 10:1 bad to good. Typically when people have good interactions with a company they don't say anything because it is thought to be a "given". But bad news is typically aired to make people feel better.

 

[Ezana4CE]

Agreed.......BUT..... to play devils advocate...... there are always bad reviews on everything. Typically in business all you will see are the bad reviews, I think it is something like 10:1 bad to good. Typically when people have good interactions with a company they don't say anything because it is thought to be a "given". But bad news is typically aired to make people feel better.

@woogie_man Another thing to pay attention to. Leave feedback. Positive feedback is also helpful. Not saying good things can hurt a business. Look at my @Airgun-Revisions thread. If you can create a post or a thread, you can leave a review.

Have Any AGN Members Purchased Guns or Service from Airgun Revisions?

I’m really curious about this member’s site. Every so often I interact with this member in the forums and he seems personable and helpful. But when I searched AGN for information on people’s experience in shopping on his site, I come up empty. With that said, if you have purchased goods and...

www.airgunnation.com

I had to ask if this was a good shop because not many members had said much about it that I could find in a brief search. Come to find out this shop is great! Rich was really a pleasure to deal with and he had great pricing and good communication. We need more of this, good or bad - speak up. That's a part of being a member of a community. Don't just come in with the idea of wanting to take from this community by doing things like joining just to buy or sell or dumping your frustrations on us and not helping us by sharing what you've learned after members here have helped you. Give back, damn it!! Help others as you have been helped. Is that too much to ask? I know it's unrealistic to expect everyone to contribute, but some folks know that they can do more to help others avoid getting screwed.

 

[Centercut]

If you're not going to list a name or name of a business, do us all a favor and just keep it to yourself... It does no one any good to ramble on and then not identify the offending person or business.

 

[Ricochet]

And here's a large part of the problem. Had someone warned you (as the victim), do you think that you would be in this sort of predicament (if you were a member complaining of getting screwed over)? Why not say that "xxxx runs a shop that is an absolute show?" If I read that, I would avoid that shop all together. In fact, similar things have been said about vendors with mixed reviews and I've paid attention. What I found later on were more people with similar complaints who didn't take heed and erred in taking a chance on the positive reviews that they'd read and had some of the same issues. I've had a transaction and communication or two with a shop and found that what many others said were true. Considering that I have little faith and trust in said shop, I avoid them unless I have few other options. If I do need to purchase something again, I have a good idea what to expect and that is a calculated risk that I'd take.

Yes, closure on the hostage gun been gone to long thread needs to be provided. We all got a pretty good idea, but nobody will say it out loud.

 

[GenXer]

The reason people refrain is either because they have no testicular fortitude and are scared to be rebutted in public, or there's more to the story that they aren't sharing.

In my opinion.

 

[PumaCarl]

Yeah, a lot of people say that if you can't say something nice about somebody, say nothing, and they are wrong, and are helping no one, not even their smug self. The best policy is honesty, period. If you think you are getting mistreated speak up with ALL the facts you have and let the chips fall where they may. If you find out you were wrong, apologize, if you find that you were right, proceed accordingly. Pretty simple stuff. If you are only going to tell half the story and not name names then do us all a favor and just shut up. You know you will get called out on it anyway, and in the end, you will wish you had done just that.

 

[Gerry52]

I agree with Ezana4ce & Centercut! Why bitch about unacceptable business practices or unscrupulous behavior without naming names so others don't fall into the same scenario. I do understand about not pissing off the guy who has one's beloved equipment but if a business is BLATANTLY doing the wrong thing then I say screw em! Untruthful (or no) communication, unacceptable lengthy turnaround time, terrible quality of work, etc. should not get a "pass" & those types of jerkholes should be called out. A good reputation is earned, not given gratuitously! I had one of the worst experiences with a company well known here but others have had great experiences with their product. The particular guy I dealt with is no longer with that company so no need to name names. If he were still there doing the same to others I'd shout it from the rooftops.

 

[marflow 777]

could you use a forum as leverage to regain your property
tell the person that is hold your stuff that you will post the dirty laundry about what is going on, it might be your last hope and it could go sideways

but sometimes you have to get their attention and i have heard stories about people losing and or being put off and even never see their guns again
there were posts on the Yellow all the time

 

[Ezana4CE]

could you use a forum as leverage to regain your property
tell the person that is hold your stuff that you will post the dirty laundry about what is going on, it might be your last hope and it could go sideways

but sometimes you have to get their attention and i have heard stories about people losing and or being put off and even never see their guns again…

@marflow 777 Good question. I have no idea because I’m not accustomed to reading threads where the resolution is spelled out. Have you ever seen someone post their grievances publicly and leverage it to recover stolen property or gear held hostage?

 

[Treefrog]

A few things.

Perhaps we should have an "I have a complaint" sub-forum for that kind of threads because they always wind up here and devalue the rest of the content.

Of all the many forums that I've participated in over the years, this one far exceeds the others in the number of vendor complaints and disagreements.

We have to consider that we're all largely internet randos to one another here and not take each other too seriously.

Some people (largely the ones with poor people skills) will decide it's their sole purpose in life to make life hell for someone else because they can. They usually show up to make their case, garner sympathy and then disappear. Much (like the guy that wouldn't get along with Heather).

We is, what we is.

Cheers,

J~

 

[Bernie7]

I think the key is that when this happens everyone goes, ‘tell US because it will help the COMMUNITY’ which is true and definitely the right thing to do. But what the person is looking for is advice for themselves. What we should be doing is explaining why it will help the them with the side effect of alerting the rest of us. I did that with one of these recent posts and they seemed to respond positively because I explained why it was a good way to help them get their stuff back.

@Ezana4CE I think you’re looking at things from your perspective which I personally agree with but we’re speaking to each other through a computer screen. We don’t know if we’re talking to some 19 yr old kid who’s afraid and doesn’t have the life experience to necessarily know what you, I, and many other members can easily conclude which is that it does make sense to name drop.

Also I think @TYLERHASKINS2 nailed it, which is sometimes people need to vent to those who can relate and give advice. A few months ago I made a post about general concerns related to high pressure tanks. People put my mind at ease by sharing their thoughts and someone came in and dropped a DOD study on the Navy SCBA tanks which I thoroughly read and now I’m not concerned at all.

Just my $0.02

 

[heavy-impact]

If you have a problem with a business that is a buddy of or sponsors this forum in any way you will not be allowed to state the facts here. Sometimes the only way to get the information out is indirect. I tried to tell people about a shady business for years and the posts would get deleted and I would be accused of having an agenda... until the business imploded from the very problem I stated all along. No one apologized. Then there's the fan boys. You could say X business did this to me while showing all the proof and the fan boys will defend X to the ends of the earth no matter what. Sometimes you just type it into the little box and then delete it because you know how it's gonna go.

 

[Ezana4CE]

@Bernie7 On forums I've learned to try to look beyond my perspective. It's part of why I participate, to contribute information because I've learned a lot, especially on AGN. Posts like yours about HPA fears are why I started a couple of threads to address myths and allay fears that I also once shared. That study was likely discussed in one of the two threads.

I suggest that people name the shops or tuners simply because it has great potential to help others. Of course you're going to be concerned about your property that you paid for. Realistically, once things get to the point where months or years have passed and you have waited to speak out, what are you expecting to be the result of venting and not seeking advice? Some folks don't even ask, they just tell their side of a story. The side that got them upset. Why not tell how the issue was settled? I'm not talking about trolls, just regular working or retired arigunnners.

@heavy-impact I've seen people reprimanded for speaking out against certain sponsors. Some of us read posts before they have been deleted and recall what was stated. I've seen a couple of members that would go out of their way to do this across several threads. One was antagonistic and not just to that vendor. This member was eventually banned and came back under various names. Nonethelesss, the gist of what was said I found to be true and matched posts written by others that were not altered or deleted. My main concern is getting the information out there so people spending money that they worked for can make better decisions on how they'd like to spend it. Some won't be as tactful as others in communicating our displeasure, but to many of us quality service still means something - so honesty is appreciated. I think that a substantial number of us have lived most of our lives during a time when professionalism and good service were commonplace and integral to a successful business. We're still here and some younger people still value good service, so avoiding bad service and shady individuals is desired and warnings are warranted and valued especially when coming from reputable members.

 

[boscoebrea]

It depends, some people just biktch, others are not experienced and others have a real problem.
Some people like to complain,Crazy as it seems the person who complains may be one in two hundred.
Why are you taken back? If everyone bitkt at the same dealer, store or person then Yes, tell all,
The thing is I Always look at feedback..... a simple thing to do,,YES,if no one uses feedback no one will ever know.
Geeze,I thought I was disagreeing with you; Now it seems I agree with you,the sin of logic!

 

[Trucker3573]

I agree 100% and why I was highly annoyed with a certain thread and certain scope review channel on YouTube recently. It’s just a pointless rant without naming companies that no one cares about.